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大黃貓加菲


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21#
發表於 08-12-25 10:16 |只看該作者
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大黃貓加菲


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22#
發表於 08-12-25 10:20 |只看該作者
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viewer


子爵府

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23#
發表於 08-12-25 12:58 |只看該作者
既然『無丈夫、無兒女、無男友、無信仰』，『親子王國』及『基督家庭』討論區便和閣下無關，請尊重自己，離開這裡，不要繼續搞破壞，好嗎？

要貼反宗教的文章，到無神論者、反宗教者、離教者、同性戀者的討論區發表吧，他們會歡迎你。

無聊便和朋友煲電話粥﹑去行街。或者嘗試用最後努力在五十前找個男友吧－－雖然從"外在美"、"內在美"、年紀、性格、修養......來看，機會或許渺茫，但世事難料，也許有志者事竟成，不要灰心。

原文章由 大黃貓加菲 於 08-12-25 10:20 發表
無丈夫、無兒女、無男友、無信仰不是什麼問題罷﹖
好多男性一樣沒有妻子﹑兒女﹑女友﹑信仰的哪。
每日不是單單前去『基督家庭』討論區 wor﹐我有同朋友煲電話粥﹑去行街 -- 唔符合你們四十幾歲的女士“stereotype”就諸多猜測﹐又唔看看你們自己既信仰幾迷信﹐聖誕節走去慶祝神話故事。
你看人有問題﹐人看你們都是問題

[ 本文章最後由 viewer 於 08-12-25 16:50 編輯 ]
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大黃貓加菲


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24#
發表於 08-12-25 17:23 |只看該作者
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叮鈴


大宅

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25#
發表於 08-12-25 20:18 |只看該作者
原文章由 大黃貓加菲 於 08-12-25 17:23 發表

『無丈夫、無兒女、無男友、無信仰』，『親子王國』及『基督家庭』討論區版規沒有禁止無丈夫、無兒女、無男友、無信仰的人參加。如果係請問 agape 有資格參加嗎﹖
我也不承認我是搞破壞﹐基督教你們不再在學校/社會攪破壞 ...


你無資格叫人慎言﹗﹗
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大黃貓加菲


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26#
發表於 08-12-25 21:21 |只看該作者
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viewer


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27#
發表於 08-12-26 12:22 |只看該作者
大家看看，虞瑋倩(大黃貓加菲，kittycub )有沒有資格叫人慎言：

原文章由 大黃貓加菲 於 08-12-26 00:20 發表
不管用﹖係你比耶穌強定係耶穌沒有用﹖
如果你這種人比耶穌強﹐我比你聰明﹐使咩信耶穌﹖
如果耶穌沒有用﹐我為何要信﹖

耶穌這種廢物留給你這廢物罷

原文章由 kittycub 於 07-2-23 發表

你生既子女好似你咁﹐最後你生既日後早死。

原文章由 kittycub 於 07-2-23 00:39 發表

...你的反應 (不想與我有任何對話) 顯示你非常不成熟﹐只喜歡聽動聽的言語。
你這樣說法﹐或者你可能心裡面都不想和你的父母､老師等有任何對話 (他們都也許對你說話很惡的罷)
那麼喜歡講 feel﹐給錢妓女啦。

原文章由 kittycub 於 07-2-23 00:53 發表

一句講晒﹐你對事情的處理係靠感覺而不是事實。
你子女學你這樣﹐不實事求是､講感覺﹐他們最後變成的就是和 agape那樣的混蛋而已。
你這種孩子氣､不成熟的回應﹐就是你子女第一樣不可以學習的回應。
或者你係唔係應該絕育､或者如果你係女子﹐懷孕馬上墮胎﹐免得你生的子女學你那樣﹖

[ 本文章最後由 viewer 於 08-12-26 12:24 編輯 ]
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大黃貓加菲


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28#
發表於 08-12-26 14:38 |只看該作者
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大黃貓加菲


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29#
發表於 08-12-26 14:39 |只看該作者
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aria


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30#
發表於 08-12-26 22:26 |只看該作者
最搞笑係教育王國,教育廣場..個版主仲比個 (大手指公記號)佢..


http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/viewthread.php?tid=1691037&extra=page%3D1




原文章由 viewer 於 08-12-26 12:22 發表
大家看看，虞瑋倩(大黃貓加菲，kittycub )有沒有資格叫人慎言：
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mukyin


大宅

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31#
發表於 08-12-26 22:28 |只看該作者
我覺得不用趕大黃貓加菲走。
不過，我自己選擇不看他的留言，因為都是歪理，也絕不回應他所寫的任何東西，他只希望與人爭辯。我不想中他下懷。
大家也不用再理他吧! Just ignore him / her!
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marcusBma


別墅

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32#
發表於 08-12-27 02:54 |只看該作者
虞女仕: 一直我都為你感到好可惜, 何解你要這樣過日子呢?
睇見你以前的post, 我忍不住哭了, 為了你自己, 悔改吧!
像你這樣過日子, 要面對自己,很是痛苦

是 神要使用你, 有特別的旨意嗎?
你要如此逼迫基督, 是在逼迫自己, 你有真正平安嗎?

口舌勝利了, 你有一刻滿足, 但實在可憐
最後輸了自己

入這topic前, 只想打"十分贊成", 但睇完你以前的post, 我都覺得只有為你祈禱, 願你早日平安
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joys2334


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33#
發表於 08-12-27 10:11 |只看該作者
Amen!
"因為他們所作的他們不知道"





原文章由 marcusBma 於 08-12-27 02:54 發表
虞女仕: 一直我都為你感到好可惜, 何解你要這樣過日子呢?
睇見你以前的post, 我忍不住哭了, 為了你自己, 悔改吧!
像你這樣過日子, 要面對自己,很是痛苦

是 神要使用你, 有特別的旨意嗎?
你要如此逼迫基督, 是在逼迫 ...
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agape


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34#
發表於 08-12-27 11:32 |只看該作者
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大臣


榮譽會員

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母親節2025勳章 2025勳章 2025勳章蛇年勳章 2024年龍年勳章 2023年兔年勳章 虎到金來勳章 牛年勳章 2018母親節勳章 2018父親節勳章 2016畫展勳章 夏天玩到顛 +3金熱血 畀面勳章 BK猜猜猜慶中秋 冬日勳章 春季勳章 炎夏勳章 秋日勳章 hashtag旅遊勳章 hashtag影視迷勳章


35#
發表於 08-12-27 23:49 |只看該作者
我一早亦有留意到這人, 亦有發PM警告他不要再搞事, 但基於真理越辯越明, 我不想強將持別信仰的人封鎖了事, 但觀察後發覺由他在此會影響正常的討論, 所以決定封鎖, 請各位留意, 如有其他帳號來搞事, 請舉報通知管理員跟進.

大臣

原文章由 agape 於 08-12-23 16:02 發表
請版主封鎖大黃貓加菲此人,她是特意來破壞基督家庭的.
她既決意要跘倒人,反基督,和她沒完沒了談下去,已沒意義,根本浪費時間.
若任憑她作惡下去,這里很快會變成反基督教版.版主好自為之. ...
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viewer


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36#
發表於 09-1-2 19:49 |只看該作者
多謝大臣！


不過，她（虞瑋倩/Virginia Yue/Kittycub/大黃傻貓加菲/大傻貓加菲/大黃傻貓Garfield/shen_cat/...）現在又用另一個網名”大傻貓加菲”，去左”教育王國”的"初中教育"區攪事．

Link: http://forum.edu-kingdom.com/viewthread.php?tid=1693111&extra=page%3D1

原帖由 大臣 於 08-12-27 23:49 發表
我一早亦有留意到這人, 亦有發PM警告他不要再搞事, 但基於真理越辯越明, 我不想強將持別信仰的人封鎖了事, 但觀察後發覺由他在此會影響正常的討論, 所以決定封鎖, 請各位留意, 如有其他帳號來搞事, 請舉報通知管理員 ...

[ 本帖最後由 viewer 於 09-1-2 21:06 編輯 ]
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Carol601016


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37#
發表於 09-1-3 10:57 |只看該作者
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大臭B爸爸


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38#
發表於 09-1-3 22:21 |只看該作者
主內弟兄姊妹平安:

我們雖知道大黃貓加菲此人,她來"基督家庭"的目的是來攪破壞,言談間刻意表露她敵基督的心態,大家有否可曾想過,為何她對基督教有如此的反感敵對,中間又發生過何事,竟令這位昔日的"基督徒"變成敵基督者,她雖然來攪破壞,但是大家有否為她禱告,盼她能早日回歸救主...

小弟嘗試在網上尋找她為何離開基督教的[見證],發現原來這位朋友昔日曾為基督教起來與別人大吵大鬧,可是今天的她卻成為離教者的一員。

弟兄姊妹可知嗎?外面有一個網站叫"離教者之家",首先聲明若你的信主根基薄弱,信心很易因風浪動遙,小弟勸你切勿瀏覽這類網頁,當然你的信心堅強,靠主站立得穩,大可嘗試進入內瀏覽,不過我也請你先作簡單的禱告,求主保守你的信心,免得自己先動遙,至於網址我是不會在這裡登出,要找就請你們尋找,後果自負...

至於那大黃貓加菲的離教[見證]原文是英文,小弟會於下一篇再發表....
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大臭B爸爸


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39#
發表於 09-1-3 22:24 |只看該作者
貓貓剛剛變了無神論者

This is a long long road.

I started out as a Fundamentalist, because the church I attended was a Fundamentalist church (Rev Daniel Ng, now the pastor of Kong Fook Tong, and the church was closely linked to Society of Truth and Light).

I first turned away from my rigid position as a Fundamentalist when I found that I could not defend cases when churches or para-Christian organizations or Christian groups hire staff based on their religion (hire Christians only) as well as those rigid marriage rules (marrying Christians only).
In both cases the arguments for the positions are weak, contrary to my values of equal/fair treatment to all.

As I got plunged to a war between Catholics and Fundamentalists in a number of forums (CCfellow, allenchow.com, iShare, etc), all the deadly flaws, toxic teachings of Fundamentalism were thrown to my face. I met the meanest humans beyond description---spitting poisons, deceitful, abuse of powers (when they manage the forum), twisting truths, slanderous, etc.

(My persistent fight with the Fundamentalists indirectly caused these three forums to close down for good. There were at least 2 others which met the same fate).

It is then I changed my position to a "mainstream Baptist" (after I was influenced by writings of this site www.mainstreambaptists.org). I questioned the validity of Bible inerrancy, literal interpretation, anti-Catholicism, once-saved-always-saved, sola fide, sola scriptura, etc.

In fighting with the Fundamentalists alongside with Catholics, I delved into books of all brands of Christianity---Catholicism, Lutheranism, Baptists (of course), Calvinism, Eastern Orthodoxy, touching subjects on salvation, end times, liberal theology, etc.

It was then I started to pick up logical thinking and reasoning again, because I must be able to weigh each brand of Christianity on their merits. I owned almost all books by 李天命. There are a number of Christian theologian-written books trying to debunk 李天命, but their arguments were laughable.

Then comes ID (Intelligent Design), the Noah's Ark fiasco of Media Evangelism. Both incidences drawn me to look at evidences of the origin of earth and evolution. At the point I remember saying to a Fundamentalist (a more benign one) that I don't think the Flood happened exactly the way it was written in the Bible (I believed it was a local flood, and later I found it to be true, only that Noah became a Babylonian). By this I effectively denied literally interpretation.

The next tipping point, as I remember, was SODO (2005).

I took on the HK brand of Christian Right-wing directly and sharply criticised their actions, wrote long articles and debated with right-winged Christians on Christian Times.

When Rev. Silas Wong was forced to resign, and along with the deceitfulness of KWAC, the silence of Christian community over this, and 梁家麟博士 defending it, I lost faith totally in the evangelical circles of Hong Kong. They were just like any ideological groups, refusing to listen to facts and different opinions. I was also convinced then homosexualilty is something similar to psychiatric diseases or of in-born nature, and that they were not morally wrong.

These events gradually changed me, I already thrown out Bible inerrancy, I thrown out "simple faith", I denied that homosexuality is a sin, it was only a matter of time before I thrown out the miracles, God creationism, etc.

I did not remember when, I purchased a book written by 方舟子(方舟子揭開世界之謎). In the book there is a full section refuting all psuedo-scientific claims cooked up by Christians to claim evolution is a "theory". How different schemes by Creationist can be debunked by rigorous science.

Round about the same time I purchased "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins, and in it loads of reasons that God is not necessary nor the hand in everything that happened.

In a separate incidence, I had a confrontation with my church's senior pastor over the question of "once-saved-always-saved".

During the conversation, he just printed out 10 pages and said there were "over 100 verses in the Bible" that proved "once-saved-always-saved". He was not ready to discuss with me, he wanted me to submit. I challenged him a number of points citing the Christian Times article then labelling a church "heretic":

Me: the article listed a number of criteria that makes this church heretic. One is the divinity of Christ, one is pastoral authority, and the other one is "rejecting once-saved-always-saved". I reject once-saved-always-saved, you said the other Sunday with emphasis on this point when talking about this church. Answer me, am I now a heretic?

Pastor: ..... you took the words out of context, it should be placed alongside with the others...

Me: this is illogical, if you listed it there, then as long as you fulfill the one or more of it, then it meets the criteria

Pastor: ....no ..no, you have to consider it with others

Me: then this criterial "rejecting once-saved-always-saved" should not be there ?

Pastor:.....I am a Baptist minister for 40 years, I was to preach the truth in the Bible, once-saved-always-saved is the truth as proven by the Bible.

Me: then what about the Methodists, the Lutherans, surely you know they don't teach once-saved-always-saved ?

Pastor: I don't comment other churches. I tell you, I am a veteran minister who preached for 40 years. We preach the truth said in the Bible. The Bible is literally true, the world is created in 6 days, each day a 24 hour day. Do you know that in USA the South Western Theological Seminary, once professor published a set of commentaries and used the word "myth" to describe Genesis ? He was sacked and the whole set of commentaries were rewritten. I preach what I believed is true and I do not have to answer individual. You are free to read anything you like, but in my church, it is what it will be taught.

.....

We have no common ground.

The above incidence convinced me that I could not stay in this church as long as this pastor is there.

To research on Creationism, I went to www.infidels.org to look for more research material. Most questions of evolution was answered by 方舟子, but there was yet a question not answered, how do the universe arise? (Creation Ex nihilo)

This site gives me that article: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/vacuum.html

Then I also realized, the preposition that "things can only come to existence via creation, before that there is nothing" contains an assumption -- "before that there is nothing".This assertion is unfounded, why can't it be that things were there all the way along, then creation will be unnecessary.

The articles answered my doubt, and then I realized that Creation thing is now out of the window. The same night, I was supposed to attend the Hong Kong Franklin Graham Festival (I was one member of the big choir), then I found that I could not bring myself to go.

My mind would not allow it. I loved singing, but my mind told me that I could not do it, I should not go.

I kept this change of mind for about 2 months, I go to discussion forums as usual, but my demeanor has changed already.

During this period, I purchased a number of DVD from BBC discussing Bible mysteries (the Flood, the fall of Jericho, Jesus' death etc). Those materials confirmed me that God could not have existed, or the chances of it would be even slimmer than Jesus is a female.

I almost gave myself away when I told my ex-Pastor (Dr. Sun Po-Ling) that I was about to be an ex-Christian. He was kind, gracious and not a judgement word came out of him when I had coffee with him. He certainly appreciated me as being a socially concerned Christian, but he had no idea that I was so near to the brink of quitting Christianity.

However, the more I ponder on this, the more I felt I should make a decision. I decided that I should not kept this to myself so I declare it in discuss.com.hk.

I am planning my exit from my church friends and deciding how to break the news to my Christian friends.

I am lucky that most of my Christian friends are genuinely kind, friendly, and many of them are funny people that you will like to hang around with.
I hope that my news will not startle them. I have to really think hard on how to tell them.

I was initially worried that my change will also give ammunition to the hostile Fundamentalists (mainly on the Internet, e.g. in Christian Times), that they could use this against me and my causes. However, I reconed that I should not be deterred by those people, they considered me an apostate anyway.

However, I do not want my case to harm those groups I affiliated with. Those mean Fundamentalists can do anything just to show that they are righteous, so I have to plan my exit very carefully.
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大臭B爸爸


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40#
發表於 09-1-3 22:28 |只看該作者
另外她有另一個特長版本:
Resigned from Christianity after 23 years of journey

The beginning

I am a keen learner and enthusiast of knowledge. I and my siblings used to beg our parents to buy kids encyclopedias, popular science magazines. We do read comics of course, but our crave for knowledge was unique among our peers.

I was especially fascinated by nature and science from a very young age, and even considered to be a scientific researcher. I watched TV programs like “Cosmos” (Carl Sagan) and those programmes by Sir David Attenborough on science and nature.

I studied at a Christian found high school (Episcopal), and there were a number of Christians (teachers and students) keen on evangelizing the schoolmates. I never took things in the Bible seriously even though I knew a lot about the Bible. The religious atmosphere was great, and most of all, the teacher heading the religious part was a relatively open minded person, who would not judge or condemn other religions or faith like the Fundamentalist. Her openness and her approach in discussing topics by engagement took root in my mind.

I was brilliant in my study, doing debates and public speaking, because I had a good mind in making arguments and reasoning. I had a lot of hopes with my life.

The crisis and the conversion

However by the time I was 18, my family went into a deep crisis. My father and mother separated, my father’s business collapsed. I was greatly depressed, my grades fell, I missed classes, and I started to hang around with the “bad” kids. My father was the authoritarian type and control-freak, and my mother the submissive type, which infused some kind of inferiority feeling and lack of confidence in my mind; I found that my life was always in their tight grip, and I was not allowed to have my opinion, and there was no self-assurance given to my in my upbringing, which probably explained my receptiveness to Christianity at that time.

Those Christians in my high school approached me then. Maybe I was moved by the kind of caring they gave me, and that I needed so much emotional supported that I said yes to an invitation of a evangelizing meeting at a schoolmates church, and there I, “accepted Christ as my personal savior”.

Years of living in faith

Like many new converts to a faith, there was a kind euphoria that that somehow appeared to give me great peace and joy in the heart. I was so excited of my new found peace and faith that I immersed in it quickly, began witnessing the Gospel, sharing my experience around.

With my brain in overdrive, I zoomed pass the entire part of the “new Christian induction” that was used in my church. I attended all gatherings apart from Sunday services diligently, showed up on time, join the choir, volunteered to do a lot of things in the church.

In less than a year, I was almost indistinguishable from any veteran Christian. At the same time, I tucked my scientific and logical mind up to a little attic in my head until 15 years later and basked in the 2 year honeymoon with Christianity.

My church was a Baptist church that subscribed to Fundamentalist position, though I met a lot of Christians that took a more moderate position. The Fundamentalist view of the world affected my a lot. I held a very exclusive mindset that Christians and non-Christians could not work together, not to mention marrying. I also looked down on other faiths, fully convinced that Christianity is supreme. I stayed a Fundamentalist for at least 8 or 9 years, during which I invested in a lot of Christian books, Bible commentaries etc. I led Bible study groups, sing in the choir, and sometimes taught in Sunday schools. Every year we attended summer camps, where there would always be a section where the youths were called to “re-dedicated” themselves. People went forward, tearfully said they would dedicate their lives to Jesus etc.

Yet I noticed a kind of pattern. After a number of years in summer camps and seeing all these people re-dedicated themselves, those who “cried” the most were often the ones who “fell away” from the faith.

Likewise, those who appeared to be very fervent would also tend to disappear from church. It was then I figured that in many of the conversion cases, emotion was the main element, not faith or reason. I had no idea I was one of this kind.

The first glimpses of the dark side of Christianity

Before long I had my first brush with the dark side of Christianity. I led a small group and we had Bible studies. This mode of gathering was new to the church, and our church, a Baptist church, was trying to figure out the mode and decided that in order to get people to know each other, the groups would undergo re-organization every year. This was greatly resisted buy my group members because they would rather settle in a group for a longer term, and not to be forced to build new relationships. Temper flared when the church’s person who led this said this was the “church’s policy” and that we had to make up our minds or the church would do it for us. I asked the church not to split the groups and got a promise from the committee. Yet four months later I was shocked to find that they split the groups anyway. I was very disappointed. I realized that in a church, individual’s concern could be ignored for the convenience of church administration.

The second brush happened when I switched church. It was the pastor. He had disagreements with one of the deacons. The pastor back-stabbed that deacon in small Bible study groups, and he talked behind his back in front of the other deacons.

The church hired a woman minister, and that pastor felt threatened by the woman minister; she was popular among the senior members and initiated a lot of good programs. The pastor started to play games, intimidating the woman minister, and at some point, verbally abused her. The woman minister was very distressed, and her performance plummeted. There were so much double-talk, back-stabbing and suspicion around the church that the Sunday services was affected, the programs were affected and the volunteers morale were low (except for the youths, which the pastor had a lot of influence).

The situation got so bad that an ad-hoc member’s assembly was called; a group who were influenced by the pastor sat in and wanted to fire the woman minister. It almost went ugly but the deacons stopped it. The woman minister found she could not cooperate with that pastor and decided to resign.

It was at this point the deacons realized that they had to fire this male pastor because his action was a clear sign of his lack of integrity and deceitfulness. The ugly power struggles were all being talked about in the choir (the choir was the circle where many rumors and gossip happened).

The Net-Christian days and my first compromise

I majored in computer studies during my undergraduate studies and after I finished my degree, I was worked in the computer/software business. I was the early ones that used BBS, and later the Internet (using slow dial-up modems) to access the Internet, and there I was opened up to a world of different opinions of Christianity, challenges to my mind and reality of Christianity I never imagined.

I began discussing issues of Christianity and faith at newsgroups, went into heated debates with non-Christians (atheists, agnostic and ex-Christians).

During that newsgroup age, I had crisis, which I found out later that it was called cognitive dissonance.

It was common practice for Christian organizations, schools or para-church organizations then to employ almost exclusively Christians. They would require the applicant for a position to be a “born-again” Christian.

This sparked a heated debate on the newsgroup. Non-Christians accused Christians of discriminating non-Christians on the basis of religion and denied them opportunity for employment.. Initially I flatly denied the accusation, and used all my ammunitions to justify the kind of employment practices. I soon found myself at the corner when I was shown cases were Christians were employed by Buddhists organizations, but not otherwise.

I looked everywhere in the Internet to find reasons that Christian organizations were allowed to practice this kind of “discrimination”, yet I could not come up any strong arguments, legally or even from the Bible (except a verse in Leviticus that prohibits two different animals from carrying the yoke).

Most other Fundamentalist would simply snap back at the non-Christians, quoting Bible verses the referring to passages of. However, I was not comfortable with this approach, we should be able to present our arguments clearly apart from pulling verses from the Bible; yet deep inside me I believed that faith should not matter that much for employment, as long as key posts are Christians. For example, a non-Christian could be an accountant for a Christian organization, or a non-Christian graphic designer or a general office clerk.

Arguments from Christians would claim that a non-Christian (accountant, clerk, whatever that may be) would draw anger from God because the service they rendered were “imperfect” because they some were from non-believers, or that the non-Christian account would not be as honest, or that they would compromise their effort to “glorify God” because one of them is a non-believer, even if that one is just a janitor. They believed that being a Christian can make so much different. My reason would not allow me to agree with that kind of argument. As long as that person followed the procedures, policies of the organization and behave well, why such a fuss with his religion? They could even take the change to evangelize!

Eventually after some struggle, I came to realize that if I could not found any sound argument, both on the Internet, the Bible and from logical reasoning, it was because that practice was wrong in nature. As much the “Truth” Christianity was claimed to be, you cannot use “Truth” to turn things that are inherently wrong to otherwise, and any attempt to do this is an abuse of our Bible and our teachings.

This feeling of cognitive dissonance aroused because I was trying to use the “Truth” to justify something which was wrong inherently, and I knew it. I then posted a message on the newsgroup saying that I renounced that position.

This was the beginning of the “end” of my Christian journey.

The Fundamentalist mindset

Here I would like to distract a bit and describe about how a Fundamentalist Christian mind worked.

If my mind worked like the one of a hard core Fundamentalist, I would ignore the fact that I could not find reasons or justifications.

I would turn a blind eye to the logical problems with the Christian’s reasoning, I would suppress my feeling of “cognitive dissonance”, because for a Fundamentalist, he/she already had the truth, and that because what they held had to be true, and truth must be defended, then all things against the truth “had to be wrong”, and that if he/she was not comfortable inside, it was the lack of faith, a temptation from Satan etc. (circular arguments, empty assertions etc.). In the end many Christians would respond with a quote from the Bible like “blessed are those who are persecuted because of my name” (Matt…) or (Cor???) or (Phil???).

I did not assumed that I had the truth as the Fundamentalist, probably because I was more influenced by the moderate Baptist position (which were non-creedal, and never presume they had the truth), this left a little gap in my mind that allowed me to use facts and reasoning out from the attic in my head from time to time. Yet when it comes to core part of the faith (Jesus’ birth and resurrection, the Flood, the salvation, Trinitarian God etc.), I blocked the logic and reasoning again.

The years of war with Fundamentalists

The Internet evolved, so was the Christian community and tools on the Internet. The text based newsgroup gave way to web-based forums, and many Christian organizations jumped on the band-wagon of the during the Internet boom, setting up web sites, and started discussion forums. They thought Internet was great to allow fellowship of Christians from all places.

There were three forums I regularly visited to post and discussed with others. One was called iShare, one was called CCFellow, the other called “Allen”.

CCFellow and Allen were dominated by Fundamentalist and in particular the hard core ones (Biblical inerrancy, literal interpretation, young-earth, anti-Catholicism, rapture and end of world etc).

At that time, forums used software that were a lot more primitive, so moderators could only delete posts but not banning accounts or barring IPs. At that time I spent time mostly on iShare, until I got to CCFellow. It was 2002, and several groups of Christians were locked in a heated debate regarding if Catholicism was a heresy. There were Catholics, Christians who regarded Catholicism as orthodox, and of course the hardcore Fundamentalists.

Initially the debates were still courteous, but as Catholics debunked one proof of heresy from the Fundamentalists after the other, the Fundamentalist got furious and started to play dirty.

They swarmed the discussion from with a lot of posts to bury counter arguments from Catholics and their sympathizers; they used all kinds of smear tactics, and posted those debunked arguments They also used multiple pseudonyms on the forum to make them appeared numerous (actually there are no more than five of them, about the same as the other side). The forum moderator was also a Fundamentalist, allowed those Fundamentalist participants to post articles that attacked the Catholics (and sympathizers) personally, posting those “proof of Catholic heresy” again and again (many of which contained false information), but when the Catholics and their sympathizers tried to respond, the moderator deleted their posts promptly.

I was not prepared for such kind of mean-spirited manner from my own camp, and immediately I “deflected” and fight the Fundamentalist alongside with the Catholics.

During that process, I need to muster sound arguments from both Christianity doctrinal aspects and historical aspect, so I started to read widely on different denominations (Episcopalism, Lutheranism, Calvinism, Arminianism, Baptists etc). I realized that diversity (or confusion ?) of Christian understanding of the Christian faith, and that there were core dogmas as well as varieties of teachings.

Furthermore I found that many of the Fundamentalists / Evangelical teachings on sola fide, sola scriptura, salvation, end times, and justification etc. were not as biblical as they claimed. I found out that Fundamentalists cooked up many lies against Catholicism (that they removed books from the Bible, that they altered the Ten Commandments etc.) and that they distorted many of Catholics position.

After that incident in CCFellow, I realized I could no longer subscribe to the Fundamentalist position.

This fighting with the Fundamentalist lasted for at least 3 years. During the years at CCFellow, the Fundamentalist also used the forum as a launch pad of their attacks to Christians or organizations they saw as “heresy”, “Liberals” or “apostates”. In one instant, they posted an article accusing a university professor at the university’s school of theology of teaching people to pray to “God the Mother”. They took the professor’s word out of context and attacked that school of teaching heresy. When they posted the article, they used that school’s official email address. I promptly informed the head of that school, and the school responded by posting a statement denouncing the actions of those Fundamentalist. The Christian group hosting the forum apologized, the Fundamentalists stopped for a short while, then started their attacks again. At this moment, their shameless and mean-spirited manners was so appalling that the forum drew other in to start quarreling with the Fundamentalists, and the fight heated up. The organization running the forum decided to shut the forum down because they found that the whole situation was out of control.

In another battle ground at “Allen”, the fighting was as intense, some Christians were so frightened by the quarrel there that they moved to other forums, and before long that forum had to shutdown too.

The battle was repeated in one forum after another, scared the shit of all those Christian organizations - some forum posted articles accusing Dr. Billy Graham to be an apostate, some had death threats to those opposing Fundamentalist views. Those organizations running the forums might have decided that the Internet was too “rough” to be a place where faithful Christians could “fellowship” and be “edified”, and that the Internet was the place that caused wobbling Christians to stumble. They could no longer maintain the control as if it was in the church building. By 2004, only two or three open forums run by Christian organizations are online, but very few visitors.

At the time of writing of this article, which is 2008, no other Christian forum run by individual believers or organizations survived the “heat” when they accepted open membership. Those which operated exclusively for Christians (often Fundamentalists) were inactive with very few people visiting. The more active forums are moderated by both Christians and non-Christians, and hosted by private companies for commercial reasons.

For about 2 years, I followed the trails of these anti-Catholics around every Chinese forum.

There was one particular anti-Catholic (dubbed keyperson, also called himself “puritan” , “John Knox”, MandM, and a number of other names) that always tried to settle in forums and used it at his anti-Catholic launch pad. During the CCFellow days, he was the leader of the anti-Catholics.

At first Puritan displayed a very civilized demeanor and appeared to be reasonable and even loving. It was just a front, when everything went his ways.

When Catholics began to proof him wrong he started to “loose it”.

During the CCFellow days, it was also the time when the outrageous Catholic Church scandal (priest sexually molested boys) erupted. Puritan treated that scandal as his powerful ammunition to Catholics, and kept posting news clips about the scandal even 1 year after it was out of the news headlines. His tactics of “Red Herring” was so annoying that I devised a very nasty plan of revenge.

I secretly researched about clergy sexual abuse in the Protestant side, and gathered at least 30 or 40 such clippings, each involved a pastor, including cases from Campus Crusade and the Salvation Army. Then I posted all to the CCFellow forum with a report on clergy sexual abuse that was submitted to the Southern Baptist Convention.

This proved to be a terrible blow to him. Puritan must have had his perfect image of “orthodox, God fearing and Bible believing Fundamentalist” shattered, and remained silent for weeks before he re-emerged. He tried to counter my facts but he was no match to me.

Then my next blow came when I met him in another forum. I researched heavily on Bible canonicity, and found out about how the New Testament and Old Testament was evolved and the entire list of books was only official declared “Canon” (canonized) in the late 15th Century at the Council of Trent by the Catholic Church (contrary to the assumption that the books were there “from the beginning”).

(未完,待續)
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