論盡家傭 今日: 1 | 主題: 134039

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好媽媽勳章大廚勳章

22^#

發表於 09-2-2 16:33 |只看該作者

原帖由 CoffeeCake 於 09-2-2 15:15 發表
勞工署？唉，頭先打去問，佢地比啲無建設性既答案，話叫我勸個工人做手術喎！

僱主可毋須給予通知或代通知金即可終止合約，這種稱為即時解僱或即時辭職。

傭工蓄意不服從合法和合理的命令；
行為不當，而該等行為是傭工盡心盡力工作不應有的；
有欺詐或不忠行為；
經常疏忽職守；或
根據僱傭契約第 9(c) 條款 ( 英文 ) ，由執業醫生證明該傭工不適合從事該項工作。

Coffecake,

I thought about it for a while and have some idea.

The point of concern is, whether she is officially certified as "fit for employment" or "unfit", based on which you can either arrange her for medical treatment if she's still "fit" (though you can't fire her ), or simply to fire her if she's "unfit".

But based on your current situation, her health shows obviously that she cannot carry out her work properly. Given her bad health now, it's reasonable that you "order her " to go for an overall medical check for a certification so that you can arrange the next step and to recover normal operation of your house..So it's crucial that she must follow your "order" to go for a medical check, and even to receive operation/treatment.

Your "order", as such is a reasonable order, as defined under the above labour ordinance that I've quoted. (This is in my opinion).

Summarize all these points, as warning letter, and pass it to your maid, to state clearly your concern, and the way you care about her health, and the way that she is badly influencing your family's normal operation due to her refusal to go for medical check/or treatment. The tone when you write is to urge her to go for check-up. Issue the same warning letter to her, if she still resists, every other day. Got to collect three such warning letters, and eventually if she stil doesn't move, fire her immediately without compensation, with the reason that she purposefully refuses to accept "resasonable order", as defined under the labour ordinance.

You may argue that, it's unlawful to fire a helper while she's sick, and thus at risk of being sued. But requesting her to check-up and receive operation is a genuine move of yours with more than reasonalbe grounds behind (as said above), given there hasn't been any formal certification as to her long term illness (cus she refuses to go to clinic), which officially remains an unknow to you.

You haven't come to the stage of knowing if she's got permanent illenss or not...it's an unknown because there is no certification yet from doctor. The chance of you totally losing any court case, would be low if it does happen.

If you are worreid to be sued, give her some money compensation to let her go.

All along, you are still geniune and bona fide with your move and that's your point.

[ 本帖最後由 pollyw 於 09-2-2 16:57 編輯 ]

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23^#

發表於 09-2-2 16:33 |只看該作者

照做容乜易越演嚴重。。。我都係迫佢放無薪假好過！

原帖由 Siuchoi 於 09-2-2 16:29 發表
佢唔醫, 咁叫佢照做野!

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24^#

發表於 09-2-2 16:35 |只看該作者

我都係諗，去到最後一步，都要用呢個理由請走佢。。。

原帖由 pollyw 於 09-2-2 16:33 發表

僱主可毋須給予通知或代通知金即可終止合約，這種稱為即時解僱或即時辭職。
傭工蓄意不服從合法和合理的命令；行為不當，而該等行為是傭工盡 ...

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積分: 4410

25^#

發表於 09-2-2 16:39 |只看該作者

WARNING LETTER我估都要工人簽收？

原帖由 pollyw 於 09-2-2 16:33 發表

僱主可毋須給予通知或代通知金即可終止合約，這種稱為即時解僱或即時辭職。
傭工蓄意不服從合法和合理的命令；行為不當，而該等行為是傭工盡心 ...

私人傳訊

積分: 24035

好媽媽勳章大廚勳章

26^#

發表於 09-2-2 16:45 |只看該作者

原帖由 CoffeeCake 於 09-2-2 16:39 發表
WARNING LETTER我估都要工人簽收？

For sure. If you are able to reach her. But if you can't, send registed post to her agent's office address and verbally ask agent to pass to her at the same time. Keep the mailing receipt. Got to know it's a matter of whether you have taken reasonable steps to get her to receive it, but the point whether she has actually received it is not that importtant.

If this is smooth, 3 warning letters will take you 10 days or so, and you can get rid of her.

But remember when you write warning letter that you don't expressly state that you would fire her but juz notify her that "her behaviour is a serious misconduct under the labour ordinance, which may cause herself to be terminated with immediate effect".

[ 本帖最後由 pollyw 於 09-2-2 16:49 編輯 ]

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27^#

發表於 09-2-2 17:03 |只看該作者

How about I conclude the letter with:

"Please note that, in accordance to the “PracticalGuide For Employment of Foreign Domestic Helpers”, an employer may summarilydismiss his/her helper without notice or payment in lieu of notice if thehelper, in relation to the employment, wilfully disobeys a lawful andreasonable order."

原帖由 pollyw 於 09-2-2 16:45 發表
For sure. If you are able to reach her. But if you can't, send registed post to her agent's office address and verbally ask agent to pass to her at the same time. Keep the mailing receipt. Got to k ...

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28^#

發表於 09-2-2 17:12 |只看該作者

。。。。。。。。。。。。。

[ 本帖最後由 CoffeeCake 於 09-2-2 17:13 編輯 ]

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好媽媽勳章大廚勳章

29^#

發表於 09-2-2 17:36 |只看該作者

原帖由 CoffeeCake 於 09-2-2 17:03 發表
How about I conclude the letter with:

"lease note that, in accordance to the “PracticalGuide For Employment of Foreign Domestic Helpers”, an employer may summarilydismiss his/her helper without no ...

Yes...This is the main point you need to bring out. Remember, the real purpoe of a warning letter is to serve a a supporting for subsequent disputes (ie for judges to read, if disputes occur) and not really for the maid to read. Magistrates are the real target reader.

[ 本帖最後由 pollyw 於 09-2-2 17:40 編輯 ]

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30^#

發表於 09-2-2 19:07 |只看該作者

頭先又同我前老闆傾過（佢係鬼佬，都幾熟LABOR LAW）。佢話，我咁既情況，就好似有個司機車禍中斷左腳，唔醫又INSIST要繼續開車喎！佢話UNDER THIS GROUND都已經可以炒佢，最緊要係叫醫院出封信証明當時個手術係必要既。
唉，再多少過24小時就知結果。
啲醫生係咪好少會SIGN OFF話個人係NOT FIT FOR EMPLOYMENT／WORK架，聽講佢地怕人地告佢呃保險（類似永久失去工作能力果啲）。

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積分: 24035

好媽媽勳章大廚勳章

31^#

發表於 09-2-3 09:12 |只看該作者

原帖由 CoffeeCake 於 09-2-2 19:07 發表
頭先又同我前老闆傾過（佢係鬼佬，都幾熟LABOR LAW）。佢話，我咁既情況，就好似有個司機車禍中斷左腳，唔醫又INSIST要繼續開車喎！佢話UNDER THIS GROUND都已經可以炒佢，最緊要係叫醫院出封信証明當時個手術係必要既。
唉，再多少過2 ...

Coffeecake,

Do update us here when you have the result!!

Good luck!!

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32^#

發表於 09-2-3 18:36 |只看該作者

今日去左醫院，醫院重約埋翻譯，到頭來又係醫生想勸佢開刀。原來佢都幾大鑊：碎骨，移位，甩”較”。醫生話唔開刀會以後行路都痛。
至於手術。。。先開刀放幾粒釘入去扣好位，3個月後再開刀拆釘，拆完釘又要幾個禮拜先復原。咁既TIMEFRAME，如果真係做，好番既時候已經係完約。
我而家反而有啲驚佢真係想做，因為休養期間，豈不是要我照顧佢？
個衰人當時重話想要多一個WEEK返我屋企考慮！我拒絕，因為我已經要另外請人湊我個女，佢番黎考慮，即係要我照顧多一個人！醫生後來話比佢留響醫院考慮。最後，都係個翻譯醒，話佢：香港人無咁多時間比你浪費，你考慮四個鐘，今晚決定做定唔做！

之後我地各散東西，我打比AGENT，同佢講，既然佢咁怕香港醫生，我比張機票佢番印尼醫，但因為已經離開左香港，我唔負責醫藥費。到佢好番又未完約，加埋張醫生証明，30日前可通知我要番黎做。希望佢接受！

EVEN佢決定做手術，果3個月養傷期間我都會比張機票佢歸家，因為屋企跟本無人照顧佢，除非佢巴閉到可以自己請私家看護！

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33^#

發表於 09-2-4 09:48 |只看該作者

尋日又繼續研究勞工條列，發現原來員工拒絕就醫，我係可以唔比PAY SICK LEAVE。即係話，你有你玩野，人工就無架啦！

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saiwanho

男爵府

積分: 9532

親子王國15週年勳章

34^#

發表於 09-2-4 09:49 |只看該作者

原帖由 CoffeeCake 於 09-2-4 09:48 發表
尋日又繼續研究勞工條列，發現原來員工拒絕就醫，我係可以唔比PAY SICK LEAVE。即係話，你有你玩野，人工就無架啦！

good point!! so you don't need to worry that much

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qqqqqq

積分: 2815

35^#

發表於 09-2-4 10:03 |只看該作者

Coffee Cake, 試下叫醫生寫翻的証明/ medical report比你keep係手先, 以防佢日後玩野. Try to ask the doctor give you a certificate to certify that she is not fit to work.

原帖由 CoffeeCake 於 09-2-3 18:36 發表
今日去左醫院，醫院重約埋翻譯，到頭來又係醫生想勸佢開刀。原來佢都幾大鑊：碎骨，移位，甩”較”。醫生話唔開刀會以後行路都痛。
至於手術。。。先開刀放幾粒釘入去扣好位，3個月後再開刀拆釘，拆完釘又要幾個禮拜先復原。咁既TI ...

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36^#

發表於 09-2-4 10:15 |只看該作者

一定要啦！
不過，尋日去醫院睇佢地勸（有埋醫管局既翻譯），我都有即時用VIDEO RECORDER錄低。其中幾個重要既POINTS我都TAP左：
1。工人拒絕做手術
2。醫生親口話，唔做手術不至於永久失去工作能力，但對現時職責造成嚴重影響。
3。醫生話佢留院其間都唔自愛，重成日行黎行去。
4。我表明希望佢做手術，同埋叫佢唔洗擔心有無人做我屋企既野，反正佢有腳傷我無法比佢再湊BB。

當然，出院時我會叫醫生寫番張証明，係工人自己唔做手術，同埋佢既腳傷係會影響到佢唔能夠湊BB及做家務。

原帖由 qqqqqq 於 09-2-4 10:03 發表
Coffee Cake, 試下叫醫生寫翻的証明/ medical report比你keep係手先, 以防佢日後玩野. Try to ask the doctor give you a certificate to certify that she is not fit to work.

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qqqqqq

積分: 2815

37^#

發表於 09-2-4 10:32 |只看該作者

唔好等出院先寫(除非佢呢兩日出院), 可以叫醫生寫張memo話佢refuse operation and not co-operate.

原帖由 CoffeeCake 於 09-2-4 10:15 發表
一定要啦！
不過，尋日去醫院睇佢地勸（有埋醫管局既翻譯），我都有即時用VIDEO RECORDER錄低。其中幾個重要既POINTS我都TAP左：
1。工人拒絕做手術
2。醫生親口話，唔做手術不至於永久失去工作能力，但對現時職責造成嚴重影響。
3。 ...

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38^#

發表於 09-2-4 10:43 |只看該作者

如堅持唔做今日會出院啦。
所以都係呢兩日出到MEMO。

原帖由 qqqqqq 於 09-2-4 10:32 發表
唔好等出院先寫(除非佢呢兩日出院), 可以叫醫生寫張memo話佢refuse operation and not co-operate.

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積分: 24035

好媽媽勳章大廚勳章

39^#

發表於 09-2-4 11:04 |只看該作者

原帖由 CoffeeCake 於 09-2-4 10:43 發表
如堅持唔做今日會出院啦。
所以都係呢兩日出到MEMO。

Yes...qqqqq is right. With this memo from doctor, together with your evidence of her resissteance for treatment, I think you can fire her with the ground that "she wilfully disobeys reasonable and lawful order" immediately..No need to think about sending her to homecountry for treatment and to re-hire her...

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qqqqqq