我估佢地係叻既唔會讚, 不過唔o岩既就會出聲, 但作為家長, 同小朋友本身, 都會想人讚下掛, 現代既教育唔係講positive reinforcement 架咩 ?
==> 關於呢樣, 我只可以講, 係因為 PC 實在太多叻人, 你話你阿仔叻 - well, to be honest, 個個阿媽都係咁睇自己個細路架喇 (包括我), 事實上呢一代既小朋友又都係叻, 去考得 PC 既家長亦都係d 好緊張子女成長既人, 所以你可以想像個個家長背後都發功既時候, PC 既小朋友可以有幾叻, 因此, 當你係一個 "人人都叻" 既環境下生活既時候, 自然就會將 "叻" 當成一d 係必然既野, 而唔記起 "叻" 都係要 effort 去做出黎, 唔係生出就有的, 因此, PC 既老師係咁既環境下生活, 自就覺得 "叻係應份" ga la...因為人人都係咁丫嘛, 再者, 比你同我阿仔更叻更乖巧既人更大有人在啦, 你睇每年既浸信聯會傑出學生, 就會知天外個天仲勁 wa...so in this case, 老師邊讚得咁多呢...呵呵....嗱...不過又係個句, 我明白情況係咁 =/= 我同意呀下~ 我係做 training 既, 所以我支持 positive reinforcement, 但更認為讚唔讚係要以 standard 去睇 (即係一個 4 歲小朋友 suppose 可以做到乜, 而個細路又做得到 or more than that 就係要讚) , 而唔係 compare people (即係要叻過其他人先係叻), but I have to sorry, PC is really keen at comparing people, 以前有家長小朋友考 7x 都已有說話聽了就知 (even 家長都認為係 "死火") 但在我, 7x 咪幾好, 60 合格既話, 7x 唔係唔錯喇咩, 我知有要 search for excellence, but also got to be fair in rating performance bor...唔可以因為全班個個都 8x, 9x 就話 7x 唔好 ga ma....did you get my concept here?
2) 想問下你呀大彥而家謮既學校又有什麼不同 ? 我知你不方便講係咩學校, 但我好想知其他學校又點樣去handle這些學生 ? 當時你係幾月去考插班架 ? 考插班有什麼要注意 ?
==> 大彥 case 只係去左一間普通學校, 但就係一間老師對小朋友 4 維走, 坐唔定, 做漏功課 (因為大彥成日懶醒以為自己識哂, 所以做左一頁就唔肯再做) 都唔會話罰佢, 同埋會形容呢d 行為係 "細路仔, 個個都反斗架喇, 俾d 時間佢, 我地會慢慢教" , 而事實上又真係俾左時間佢, 佢唔做功課, 要佢補做番 and that is it - which I think this is reasonble, 一方面話佢係要 (唔守規), 但若然 what we are talking about here is the "result" (即係你最想都係小朋友做好功課從而學到書本上既野為 ultimate objectives 既話, 咁我絕對認為 PC 以前下下唔做就會數住你幾多次就寄小過 (不過我大彥冇試過, 但見佢有同學試過) 個種 "學習方式" for sure is not what I am looking for, 就算我阿仔唔會唔交功課我都唔太鍾意, 因為 that makes us stressful, both parents and the kid, 或許咁正能解釋我心中對 "包容" 二字既睇法就是不同了. However, to some other people, "discipline" 係重要的, 所以 they will enjoy the lives in PC, and think that's natural 不過既事, 在你, 你點睇就 it's for you to decide 了
3) 請教下, 係教大彥同其他小朋友有什麼不同 ?
==> 有, 大彥係絕頂聰明既人, 唔係因為佢 IQ 高, 係佢個種 "精靈" 真係冠絕同行, e.g. 佢兩歲既時候, 我地俾 breakfast 佢 , 係 bread, 佢唔鍾意食, well, 咁你認為一個 2 歲既細路唔鍾意食個樣野會點丫...依大人諗, (1) 死唔食, (2) 大喊都係唔食, (3) 掉佢落地....之類, right? 估都估到? 哈哈, 咁我話你知, 大彥既 "醒" 係更"高層次", 佢唔俾我地知佢唔想食, 起先就拖, 慢慢黎, 咁你知大人會行出行入, 唔會真係 gup 哂佢食架嘛...so 佢見我地大人行開, 就靜靜雞將d 唔食既 bread 塞左入一個柜底, 如是者, 次次都係, 仲一直都冇人知, 直至一次, 我地發現屋企有 cockroach, 諗極唔明點會有 (自問 we keep clean all the times ga ma) , OK, 循 cockroach 軌跡去揾, 嘩~~原來...一 "了" 個柜底, 成大堆發哂毛既 bread ar!! 勁肉酸....!! 我地先知原來佢一直都冇食哂d 早餐呀....死未...? 你話佢醒唔醒, 我地冇人教過佢咁, 我地自己亦唔會咁做, so how he knows this? You may call this "talent" and somehow I agree, but on the other hand, 呢d 可以係好既 talent, 但亦可以變成大壞蛋呀, so to me, 我依家首要任務係要 lead 大彥將佢既聰明放響正確既 value 上面, 咁佢以後先會行到正路, 唔係既話, 佢絕對有能力變成大壞蛋的, 好彩既係, 佢 so far 讀書都唔駛我點煩 (佢學野快), 所以我就可以多用時間唔係操佢默書, 係同佢傾偈學做人, 依家佢快 10 歲了, 更係踏入家長開始慢慢 lose control 既時候, 我就更緊張, so I am happy to say - so far so good ar... 以前 PC 係對呢類行為大為緊張的, 佢地會 treat this as "大逆不道" 咁款, 一定好多說話聽, 但依家學校既老師明白大彥既問題, 唔會下下事情一發生就勁哦, 反而會同佢傾, 咁大彥響有人先肯 listen , 唔係先 conclude 既情況下係對人好左 (以前佢係成日覺得老師針對佢, 所以 he just simply did not trust them), no magic here from the new school...just a bit more adaptation and accommodation 對佢已好有用
但我好想知其他學校又點樣去handle這些學生 ?
==> 間間學校都可以好唔同, 所以唔可以講得哂比你聽, 我亦唔會知哂, 只係可以大路d 講既就係 : 一般名校你預左都會係較以成績為著眼點, 德育唔係唔教, 而係透過學生之間既影響, 比較, 家長背後再發功去學的, 老師同學生 (or even 家長) 傾談既時間相對係少d (咁當然你要揾佢地, 佢地又唔會唔理你的, 但個形式就係好似我上面講, 好既唔會特登揾你 (冇時間呀) 衰既就一定即知個種), 相對地, 名氣較次既學校, 反正家長對佢地既期望就唔會只係成績, 所以佢地會有較多既時候去同家長 and 學生傾談, so 你就可以直接知道阿仔多d 學校既生活 - 起碼出面d 學校依家十間有八間都會定時為d 小朋友拍下 video or photo 放上學校個 web 等你自己睇 and download, so that 你就會知小朋友生活近況, 最近學緊乜, 之類, 但可惜呢野樣我好似依家都冇見到 PC 做到囉, so 難怪d 家長個個要走哂上黎 BK 問其他家長, 希望從人地口中知道阿仔做緊乜, 學緊乜
當時你係幾月去考插班架 ? 考插班有什麼要注意 ?
==> 一般學校係會係每年 6 月左右收 9 月入學既學生 (即係下學年), and 係 12 月左右就收 2 月入學 (即下學期) 既插班生, 但間間可能會有少少唔同, you better check directly with your 心儀 one 會準d, 再唔係, 唔理 3721, 自己寫信入去 (最好有埋成績表先啦, 因為上到小學, 睇成績操行呢d 先收人係好 common 既事), 咁佢地一有空缺 (一個半個實有d , 係收唔收你而已), 就會 call 你阿仔去筆試 (考插班多要考筆試) + face to face interview 的
請教下, 係教大彥同其他小朋友有什麼不同 ? 可唔可以分享下係教導gifted child 的心得 ?
==> 都冇架, 我都唔會刻意因為佢係 gifted 就用 gifted 既方法教佢, cos that may not work on everyone, cos everyone is unique, so we need to provide "tailor-made" method ma...所以我都係邊學邊調較, 你見我叫大彥轉校就係調適方法之一了.
我知你有教一些性格course, 你對9型人格有什麼睇法 ?
我近來睇了幾本有關的書, 覺得我大仔90%似5號仔 !
==> 我有睇 Ennegram (九型人格) , 但我唔多 buy 呢 set, 佢地既 theory comes from Greek legend, which 在我一個讀開 theory 為先既人黎講唔多 convincing, 所以我唔用佢的, 我教既係 MBTI, 你可以自己上網 key 下呢 4 個字母就會知多d what that is, and I do prefer this model cos it got millions of data to support and more detailed in analysing behaviour difference, which is 比 enneagram 優勝 in my eyes, in fact for senior leadership development 我地都多用 MBTI 多過 enneagram 的.
早日我已成功聚集左幾個較 close 既媽咪 friend 去同佢地講解呢個 model la....hahaha....又係我噴口水既時候了. :)
問多一個好重要問題, 你係唔係有把大彥係gifted 既事講俾學校聽 ?
==> 根本以前就係 PC 叫我帶大彥去做 test ga la..所以當然知, 佢地就係話佢成日"搞搞震" 咪問我佢係咪 hyper 囉 (hyperactive - 過度活躍症) , PC 一見小朋友反斗就會好易將佢地歸入此類, 所以就成日有說話聽 ga la...因此, 我成日同d 家長講, 假若你小朋友係好乖, 坐定定個d , 唔會發夢而又 keep 得到個成績既, the PC would be ideal for him/her. Otherwise 你就要有心理準備成日收電話囉, and as I said before, 你唔理佢, 又唔上心既話亦都唔會有問題既, 佢又唔會話趕學生出校既, 頂多哦到你自己自行了斷 only.
以前pc 都有 ? 咁2間學校反應係點呀 ? 有冇try to 做一d野 (無論最後有冇用都好) 去配合個小朋友 ?
==> PC 唔會理的, continue to be itself, 佢地 motto 係, 你自己去調適 to adapt with their culture ar ma...一向都係咁的, 你睇佢地點搞個校車就知喇...俾人鬧足咁多年都係咁....so they are very "consistent" in fact.
依家另外既學校佢地都知, 不過都係反應平常, 都係用佢一向用既方法去教佢, 只係會更俾多少少耐性啦, which is good.
唔好 expect 一般學校可以 afford too much resources for gifted, this is NOT the case, 亦唔係 HK 教育, HK 教育係大獲飯, 人人都係咁上下, 一齊聽, 一齊學, 學得上就自己跟, 學唔上 - 有錢既, 家長會自行另作安排, 冇錢既, 就要自我 "調適", 就係咁.
但我建議你, 冇必要將 gifted 呢樣野放得太大, and try so hard to find a "right" school for your boy, gifted 都係人, 在我, 我反而唔認為要將佢地同呢個世界一般既人分開 wor (i.e. to go to gifted school, etc), 因為講到尾, 人就係要學懂適應, 學懂係一個多數唔係 gifted 人既世界樹生活, 咁其中一個方法就係要去明白, 同了解人既生活行為模式, 而唔係仲要好 special 咁 treat them (well...part of that may be fine, but not all) , 所以, 我反而唔會想學校 specifically 為大彥做d 乜, 只要做番一個教育工作者應做既野 (教學, 聆聽, 引導...之類) 已足夠, 只係, 我會形容 PC 係一條好緊既 rope, 唔係人人受得 only.
因為講到尾, 人就係要學懂適應, 學懂係一個多數唔係 gifted 人既世界樹生活, 咁其中一個方法就係要去明白, 同了解人既生活行為模式, 而唔係仲要好 special 咁 treat them (well...part of that may be fine, but not all) , 所以, 我反而唔會想學校 specifically 為大彥做d 乜, 只要做番一個教育工作者應做既野 (教學, 聆聽, 引導...之類) 已足夠 ======
嘩..你同我同一時間打緊, 你有冇 miss anything I have typed ga...我打左好耐 ga ....唔好唔睇呀....otherwise waste my 心機 ga la....hehehe
我好同意pc家長真係好緊張小朋友 (不過可能係而家個個家長都係咁,我d朋友係第2d kinder 讀既都係咁),
==> 唔係, 肯定唔係, 出面仲有好多學校都係可以好 relax 而又唔係雞校的 (尤其小學), PC 家長之所以係咁唔多唔少都係 collectivism 而已, 聽人講得多話 PC 英文唔得, 就有少少 "唔輸得" 既心態啦, 亦唔想 "落後大市", 自就會谷, 所以, 係架, 你要有 "比併" 心態入去先會 OK 的, 呢個亦係一般名校都存在既問題 (不過話時話, 我當日入個時都唔多認同佢係名校, at least, in my heart, 同真正名校仲係有d 距離, 但唔係因為英文, 我講明), 當日我地都係見近近地就去考, 佢收就去讀, 一切都係隨遇而安咁發生而已. 有時諗番轉頭, 當日佢唔收我地, 可能我又體會唔到咁多野啦, so - a good learning lesson
而家k3就已經俾小朋友去學緊n 樣野 ,esp 學術上, 我身邊d同學仔9成都有去學 英文(phonics), 普通話, 數學(公文/ enopi), 我個仔以前有上phonics, 而家都冇了, 因為我覺得佢社交同體能(大小muscle)較差, 而家只係俾佢上 swimming, piano (小muscle), drama (社交表達)
==> that's fine ar...你有睇我寫開既野就知我既主張, 所以我認為你咁做冇問題 bor, you got my support here.
不過講真, 有時都feel到dd pressure架, 我都係人, 會諗, e, 人地而家已經識講普通話, 我個仔一d都唔識, 上小一就全用, 咁咪好慘 ?
==> 都話左 HK 人係 collectivism ga la...尤其係家長, 不過...唉...明既, 人在江湖嘛...
都有諗法去俾佢學, 不過一來 $ 既問題, 二來係我覺得唔使, 小朋友一上堂講得多應該都ok, resource 會集中係幫佢一d不足既地方重好.....so最後都冇學. 我相信這類feeling上到小學會更多吧..
==> 上到小學要補既野更多 (學識上既), 到時d 家長就一定要作出決擇 ga la (邊d 去邊d 唔去), 因此, 佢地心態, 唔趁依家 KG so "free" 去做, 第日佢地更難分身了 (個小朋友)
再者, 最重要既係, you should continue to do what you think that is right to do, 唔好因為個個都番 N 樣野就覺得 "對唔住" 阿仔, 第日唔夠人爭之類, 我成日都講, 普通人又好, 唔有錢既人又好, 呢個唔係問題, 可以活得自在, 冇壓力, 先應該係 "做人" 既終極目標 (that represents me, at least, 亦係我對細路既期望), 何必下下要活係人地既壓力下呢..?? 所以 manage 自己既 expectation 先係更重要, please bear in mind that you could never change others, cos that is an uncontrollable factor, but what we could do is to change or manage ourselves, is that right? 若你都能領會 what I am talking about here, you will then know what to do next.
Focus on what you can do , not what you cannot do, and you will for sure live a much happier life!
but what i can find only shows how to apply in adult, can u share where can i find the information on how to apply on kids ? or would u mind to share some if u have time ?
but what i can find only shows how to apply in adult, can u share where can i find the information on how to apply on kids ? or would u mind to share some if u have time ?
==> 唉...你咁問我即係我知你根本唔知咩叫 personality model.
但你依家咁問我, 即係似乎你連 enneagram 既真正用途係乜都未知咁 wor...佢唔係拎黎睇 "細路", 係睇 "人", 係 "人" 就得, 理佢大人定細路, 你只要明左個 theory 就會想到個 application ga la.....
Let me give you one more example : 等於你問我....生肖, 同星座點 apply 落大人同細路樹, well,....我真係 ngau 哂頭...乜有分 ga ma...大人既山羊座, 同細路既山羊座有唔同咩...?? 咪又係大路都係同一性格喜好...?? am I correct? in this case, 你咁問我我會覺得好怪的. 星座都係 personality model 既一種, 唔係點會有書教 "如何同天秤座既人相處" something like that 呢? 好多野就算真係有書出 "山羊座男 vs 雙子座女" 之類, 都其實無甚意思, cos if 你 really understand the fundamental principle of 星座, 你自己都答到你自己, 同寫得出個本書了, 駛乜要人寫比你呢....did I give you a clearer picture here?
Maybe you need to learn starting from two keywords "personality model" 先了解咩係 personality model , 再了解佢地係用黎做乜, 先再去 find out 有咩 model available in the market, it may be better.
要我講, sorry , 唔會打到咁多字 here 了, cos this model is talking about at least 1 day or 2 days (full days) training, 我打得咁多個字, 我索性出書好了...呵呵...寫少少 OK, otherwise 上堂我先會講的.
但出面坊間有唔少書講呢d 野, both enneagram and MBTI, 你可以考慮先 get 左個 foundation 先大家再 detail 傾都未遲既. :)
咁我會諗好難apply 係小朋友度, 因為佢地未識表達咁子細既feeling, 如果係咁, 就好難用佢來分析小朋友係belongs to 邊類型, 所以我就問你點先可以apply.....不過我估我睇既inforatmion可能太小啦, 我會睇多d看可否get 到insight
==> 唉...我真係本來想唔再出聲 ga la..不過見你個一知半解我就又忍唔到口要搭訕....
你話 cannot apply to 小朋友 for the MBTI Questionnaire, 咁乜你做 enneagram 唔駛做 questionnaire ga mei? So how can you confirm 你小朋友係 5 號仔呢又...?? 冇人叫你比個小朋友做 questionnaire bor....
The point is: 係就係有 questionnaire 存在, 但咁唔代表一定要做, 可以按對方行為從而已推斷到佢係乜 (即係你成日講個d 幾多號仔先叫有用), 試想下, 咪話細路啦, 乜你會下下想知對方係咩人就會塞張 questionnaire 比佢填咩..?? 又...你又認為有幾多個人肯同你填呀, 唔好話細路啦, 大人都未必個個肯啦, right? 咁唔通又 apply 唔到去大人樹咩...?? 傻妹~
第二, 內心感受係會反射係行為上面既, 即係話, e.g. 你好鍾意某d 野, 係感受, 佢梗係未必講到你聽啦, 唔好話細路, 好多大人都一樣唔得, but one thing you can see is from their behaviour - 行為上係會睇到的, e.g. 你會成日將你鍾意個樣野帶響身邊, 成日同人提起佢, 之類....咁點會睇唔到...?? 睇得到既話, 唔駛問個小朋友我都會知佢心既感受啦 (更何況細路未識好似有d 大人咁"收起行為" 怕俾人知) 就正如依家你咁...你前前後後講左咁多篇野, 文字, 語氣, 偏向, 呢d 已係 "行為", so based on your behaviour, 我都會 identify 到你係幾號仔啦, so in this case, 我駛乜問你內心感受呢..??
另...OK, 你既然話睇左咁多 enneagram 既書, 咁 what have you learnt, 不如又等你話我知你又可以點 apply 呢..?? Any specific, concrete action that you can tell? in terms of your behavioural change?
P.S. 提多你一樣, internet 上揾得到既 MBTI 既 questionnaire is not a full version, 要得到較正確既 result, 最好揾正統既 questionnaire, 唔係的話, 你填左只係會易 get the result biased. 我其實只係想你去了解 what is MBTI, 冇打算叫你去做 questionnaire, 即係, 你需要知 what "gifted" means, but that =/= you need to take a 韋氐 test, right?
1) thanks for copy and paste 起碼唔駛打多次...但...有d 部份唔係好分得出係你講既 (or 回應既) 定係人地既呢...I need this in order the map the whole picture, 同埋, 我要知你諗緊乜同做過乜, 先可以有推斷, 麻煩可唔可以將你既心思, 說話用 different colour highlight 一下?
2) 就算依家未有 detailed feedback, 我諗我會先同你講以下幾點...which I would consider to be the fundamentals in raising a kid, 我知有d 野你已有相同諗法 + 做緊, 但我都想再 list out here, 俾其他有興趣既家長都望下....
b) 要接受小朋友既思想行為可以同自己好唔同, 見到咁, 反要抱住觀察既心態去理解佢地, 而唔係去 "解決" 佢地, 因為好多時, 你見到既係"行為", 但所有 "行為" 皆源自於其思想, 所以...基於 "擒賊先擒王" 既道理, 我地係要從佢思想下埋手, 唔係更改行為, cos this only 治標唔治本的...but then how to 影響佢思想呢...咁就要先從了解佢行為動機開始....
c) 有一句說話好有用 : behaviour breeds behaviour (which is 我上堂成日講的), 今日既果就係昨日既因, 我咁講你別覺氣餒, 我亦唔係話你做得好衰而搞成咁...千萬唔好誤會, 而係, 小朋友之所以有一定既反應, 絕少係天生的 (雖則係有少部份 influence) 但更大既係來自當佢一出現一d 行為時大人當時既反應......e.g. 唔好以為話 "佢 lur 地我都冇打佢, 我由得佢"...就 = 冇問題....因為每個小朋友既特質都唔同, 對小朋友 A 你用 "ignore" 可能有效, but it may not work on 小朋友 B 的, 因此, 當你又用 "唔理佢", 作為對佢行為既一d 回應時, 佢就可以因此反而 interpret 出 "你唔要我了...." 之類, 再配合埋性格 (有d人性格較強, 所以反應會好大)...就有好唔同既反應, 久而久之, 就變成佢性格既一部份了
b) 大人要做既係幫佢建立正確, 正面同積極既人生價值觀, 但咁唔係話要佢做乜做乜, 而係要佢明白, 每一種行為可以帶黎同見到既後果, 咁佢自會明白做咩先對佢有利, 做咩係冇. 咁先係真正既 "明白", 只係針對叫佢做乜 or not 做乜就好似 maths 咁只知答案, 但又唔知點計, 咁係即係 = 冇學過一樣. 但就呢點, 大人亦要明白, 學計數都唔係一朝一夕既事啦, 更何況係學做人呢d 比數學更抽象既野呢...所以大人要有既係耐性, 同包容
c) 大人 (or even 任何人), 可以做盡一切既野去影響結果, 但不能控制結果, 即係話, 你依家識問人, 學習, 去教仔, 你亦已盡左力去用唔同既方法 - which 你自問亦係 appropriate - 咁去教導阿仔時, 佢到時有咩反應都唔會係你可以控制的了, 人唔係電腦, 可以根據程式去 work out an expected answer, 所以我地都係邊學邊 learn 邊修正, but dun feel bad that 你做唔到, 唔會有人一生出黎就做到父母的, 我地都係學, 你都一樣, 所以要俾信心自己 - I can make it!!! 你都想放棄既話, 阿仔就以後都係咁架喇...你愛佢, 所以你更唔會放棄佢架嘛...right?
Step 3: 可以考慮帶佢去做 behavioural assessment, 中大既 Department of Psychology 有的, 你可以打去問, 當年我都帶左大彥去 test IQ 之餘亦就佢一d 行為問題做左d assessment, CP (Clinical Psychologist) 會同你兩公婆傾一輪, 再同小朋友傾, 再做d observation 咁既, 將你既情況如實同佢講, 有 video 帶埋去, 出左報告之後先度下一步點行.
Step 4: 可以嘗試揾日坐低, 定定咁同你阿仔傾 (以你描述阿仔既行為咁 "大人" I guess he may be able to express himself pretty well here) 問佢, 佢咁做 (e.g. 一d 唔好既行為) 係想見到/得到d 乜....test on his intention on his -ve behaviour, 注意字眼上要避免太 negative + vague, cos this will make him feel you are too subjective, try to ask about his objective in demonstrating such behaviour in a neutral way, e.g. instead of "點解你要咁曵, 發哂脾氣呀?", try to 問佢 "我頭先見你好嬲咁 lur 哂地大聲叫, 你想要/得到/見到 d 咩呢...?" 去探知佢做某d 行為既背後意義, 睇佢點答我先有得再幫你度.
若情況常常出現既話, 就會連d 同學仔都認為你阿仔係 "異類" , 成日俾老師罰個停架, 因此, 心理上 EQ 要好高下先可以做到 "依然固我" , 唔理人點睇自己的. This is quite a common norm there, 你問我係唔係間間傳統學校都係咁..? 我唔知, 因為我冇去過 DBS, SPCC, APS 呢d 學校, 但我起碼依家知既係, 依家阿仔既學校唔會咁睇+對佢我就知要達到教好學生係可以有唔同方法的
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