Well then, you are into your day 22 and not yet having ovulation. It is not unusual to have no ovulation for even 2 cycles after ivf; or you may have a very very tiny chance missing it.
Regardless, when this period will come, same plan --> call your doctor to plan an upcoming FET (the day jointly decided by you and your doctor). It's important to see what your endometrium is like first, then your doctor will hopefully suggest natural-cycle or hormone-replacement FET. For natural cycle, no side-effect; for hormone-replaced, minimal minimal. It will be good to ask your doc if he/she really suggests hormone-replacement for you.
Relax and wait for miss M to come. (It's hard to believe that we are wishing miss M to come )
cutecutetown
點評
糟糟豬
ok.. so no matter how, i should call my dr to see what will come next! thx!!
發表於 11-6-21 14:50
Welcome here. Do you mean "unexplained infertility" in your case? How 高齡 are you?
Logically speaking, fertility declines with a woman's age. And if you are >35 yrs old, the number of good-quality eggs in your ovarian reserve declines, and therefore, making conception harder. By "good-quality", I mean those that will be genetically normal and developmentally competent. Even in women who don't have a family history of genetic problems, her eggs have been around in her ovaries since her birth and the older eggs, once fertilized, tend to have errors when cell division begins. So, even in the natural-conception group of women, older women have more miscarriages and babies with some abnormalities (e.g. Down Syndrome).
While I can't comment from a clinical standpoint (your ivf specialist should do better in terms of explaining your physiological functions and so on), I can shed some light from an ini-vitro laboratory standpoint. In among the same cohort of embryos, it is very common that some (or even all) of them are aneuploids (embryos with abnormal number of chromosomes). In your case, you were actually doing very well given your age (高齡??) and the number of frozen embryos you have. If there is at least one good embryo in among the bunch you have, it's just a matter of time that one competent embryo will be thawed for ET.
You have had only one FET so far and there is no reason to give up at all. When you recover from this round, come back strong for another FET. Stay positive!
cutecutetown
Do u remember me? My last ivf was failed in May. It was my 3rd attempt and I am 37 already. The first 2 times was done by private doctor and the last one was conducted in QM (also in private queue).
I am writing to seek some advise / support from you. In the first 2 times, I had only got 3 embryos out of 5 and 7 eggs resepectively and transferred 3 fresh embroys in day 3 in one go every time. The 2nd attempt was chemically pregnant. My period is very regular (26-28 days) and it had resumed normal after failed every times.
In my last attempt which was done in QM, I have got 7 eggs and 6 of them were fertilised (without ICIS). 2 Grade 1 embroys were transferred in my uterus in 13 May (day3). The lining was also fine. There are 4 FEs left and I am planning to have it transferrded in end of August.
Any advise or opinion from you? Do you think that I will never have a baby in my case (all embroys transferred were grade 1 and grade 2 in all my 3 attempts), ? Actually, I know that the result in my last attempt was somehow better than the first 2 and I should feel more than happy that at least there was improvement (Have FEs). However, I do not know how many times of failure I still have to face of?
Cutecutetown, is it the truth that you will ask me to stop any treatment and accept my reality?
I'm new here and seeking for your opinions:
My 1st attempt (FET) - 2 x grade 1- tranferred but FAILED
My 2nd attempt (FET) - 2 x grade 2 transferred but FAILED
And NOW, I have 3 x grade 1- and 2 x grade 2- (total 5 embryos left)
For the coming 3rd attempt, my doctor suggest that
1. Transfer 2 x grade 1- OR
2. Cultivate all 5 embryos to day 5 and transfer the survive embryos
I'm 33 years old, what should I do? I'm afraid if I choose no. 2, it will COME TO 全軍覆沒 finally.
Yes, I remember many of you by names, but your ivf history I do need to go back to see. Sometimes I wonder if I should meet you gals in person so things can be explained easier; but it's not as practical as on the internet, which I can hopefully help many of your immediate concerns.
I understand that many of you want to give up after each failure. The failed implantation is a burden, both emotionally and financially. However, having to tell you the cruel truth, if we say ivf success/bingo rate is ~40% (livebirth rate is lower, ~30%), this means no-bingo for 6 out of 10 women. But as compared to natural conception, which has a lower bingo rate (I don't remember the number, but it's ~20%?), the expensive technology does offer hope to those who has very little chance going by natural conception.
While I don't know how far away will your success be, given your age, the # eggs you produced each time of ivf, and embryo quality, you still have a good chance. What I see from my own centre is that many women who do not bingo in their fresh cycles will have their bingo in their FETs. I consistently get a higher bingo rate in the FET bunch than in the fresh ET bunch. Of course this relies on the fact that you have frozen embryos. Some argue that because you have extra embryos to freeze, you have already got the advantage of the extra quantity; and if the embryo(s) survive freeze-and-thaw, they are probably quite fit to begin with. While this logic has its merit, a more physiological endometrium in a FET cycle cannot be neglected. In fresh cycles (i.e. in the same stimulated cycle of egg retrieval), the endometrium is influenced by the high doses of hormones, which may cause it to be not very synchronized (i.e. not in step) with the embryo stage as compared to in a natural cycle. In FETs, be it utilizing your natural cycle or somewhat helped by hormonal replacement, the endometrium is in a much more natural state.
So, before you even consider giving up, go for your frozen embryos. The precious jewel(s) may still be in store for you!
cutecutetown
You are relatively young. Are these frozen embryos all derived from the same ivf cycle? How many ivf cycle(s) [=cycle(s) with egg retrieval] have you had before?
I know the safe and secured feeling of having the embryos still in storage like an insurance. BUT if all these embryos were no good (i.e. 全軍覆沒as you mentioned), why do you want to waste your time in spending yet another cycle to put back something useless?
You can see I take the more aggressive approach, because I want my patients to get pregnant and get pregnant SAFELY now. Having said that, did your doctor tell you how many embryos to transfer on day 5? I would suggest a maximum of 2 blastocysts. While there is the chance that you may have 1 or 2 blastocysts from the 5 embryos, did your doctor tell you what would be done if you have more than 2 blastocysts on your FET day? This is just as important because you should not risk yourself in transferring too many embryos into your womb. If there will be extra blastocysts, make sure re-freezing them is an option for you.
Forgot to thank you in advance in my previous mail. You are so patient in supporting all JMs here. All your words really comfort us. After reading your advice, I would like to say that I will keep on trying. I still have chance as I have got 4 frozen embyros. Fingers-crossed!!!
Cutecutetown, in my case, having regular cycle of period and fine thickness of lining, will you recommend me to choose natural cycle for the upcoming FET, or you have another idea to suggest me to choose artificial cycle? Which one is better? Kindly advise.
Thank you.
ada1103
點評
cutecutetown
Natural cycle should be used, unless your doctor has some other ideas. Good luck!
發表於 11-6-22 21:50
我已試過2次IVF, 2次FET, 全都FAILED,當中也有GRADE 1的胚胎, 但全沒有試過著床.
想請問你:
1. 我睇番你既舊POST, 你曾講過"I had personally handled a case who didn't get pregnant until her 11th attempt."我想問, 她最後成功是屬第11次IVF嗎? 或是IVF+FET =合共第11次成功?
因為我都要計算下自己能力可以支付到多少次IVF, 我只想參考一下.
This is my 1st ivf cycle and I was extracted 19 eggs, only 13 eggs fertiflized and frozen (5 x grade 1- and 8 x grade 2 & 2-). I have never done the ET before because too many eggs was extracted in the treatment.
I hope all my 3 xgrade 1- embryos can be survived to day 5. If this is the case, I would try to put 2 embryos and re-freezing the remaining for back up.
My concerns is:
1) what is the chance of grade 1- embryos can survive to day 5?
(just for your infomation, in my 1st FET, my 2 xgrade 1- embryos on day 3 were 6 cells & 8 cells without fragment, finally 有著床, but failed)
2) what is the chance of having pregnant with a day 5 embryo compared with the day 3 embryo?
1. Her 11th attempt of egg retrievals. There might be 1 or 2 times with conversion to IUI; but in all other attempts with egg retrievals, she got fresh ET and/or extra to freeze for later FETs.
Don't take her as a golden example, she may be an exceptional and extraordinary case. Also note that she started seeking ivf back in the 1990s when she was relatively young. She got her first bingo probably in 1998, which was more than 10 yrs ago. Back in the "old" days, technologies, culture conditions, patient care, etc. were all very different from today.
2. I don't think fast heartbeat affects implantation. Stress is more likely the culprit. How's your lifestyle like? Irregular and unhealthy meals, no time to rest or poor-quality sleep? We all have stress everyday, but don't let stress rule your health. When your body is in a reasonable state, better eggs may be harvested, which give better embryos meaning better implantation potential.
Different people have different ways to handle stress. Some do physical exercises, some talk to others, some take vacation time off. No matter which way you choose, take good care of yourself so you feel happy about yourself. Although this does not guarantee a baby, it at least improves your self confidence in facing a lot of physical and/or emotional hurdles in life. One day when you look back in time, you won't have to regret.
1. In cases with good prognosis, about one-third of the good-quality day-3 embryos can blastulate (i.e. growing alright to day5).
2. This depends on a lot of factors. The bingo chance of a day5 embryo is better than that of a day3 because the 2 extra days of in vitro culture serve to select out the incompatible embryos.
cutecutetown
點評
cusoon
Last 2 FET I was used artificial cycle, how about I use natural cycle with day-5 embryo this time?
發表於 11-6-23 07:11
As long as you have very regular menstrual cycles, you can discuss the use of natural cycle for FET with your doctor. He/she might have taken other factor(s) into consideration in giving you artificial cycles in the 2 previous FETs.
cutecutetown
點評
cusoon
Any side-effect/ drawback if I keep doing FET non-stop in May, June, July by use of artifical cycle?
發表於 11-6-23 23:24
Dr said the thickness is 0.78, so prospone the FET. And wait for next cycle, no medication. Just worry next cycle the same thin and can't do the FET. What can I do?
Hi Hi, I am in IVF and I keep reading your posts. It's very informative & professional.
I found you mentioned
"if we say ivf success/bingo rate is ~40% (livebirth rate is lower, ~30%), this means no-bingo for 6 out of 10 women."
I have several questions in my mind then.
1. how does IVF bingo rate being calculated? does it mean the probability of getting bingo in the same cohort of eggs? or does it mean the probability of individual ET/FET?
2. livebirth rate is only 30%! does it means 25% of IVF bingo women got 小X? that's very scaring number.
I guess I keep thinking about the down side which it's obviously no good. I hope you may help me to put out some of my worries.
1. I suppose most jm's refer to a positive home-pregnancy test as "bingo". In more technically-correct terms, this is simply a chemical pregnancy. Some clinics ask jm's or offer jm's a blood hcg measurement, which gives a better idea if there is an embryo implanted at all. In order to be called a "clinical pregnancy", a gestational sac on ultrasound has to be confirmed. I won't go into the detailed definitions; in very simple terms, we will count your bingo as a pregnancy.
Then, ivf bingo rate is a very generalized calculation of how many women getting pregnant in among all those who have embryo transfer done. When it is not specified, we usually refer to the rate from transferring fresh embryos; if we say bingo rate of FET, or FET bingo rate, then you will know that we then refer to those getting pregnant in among the group with FET.
Bingo rates, or any other rates, can be calculated for just one clinic alone, for a region, or even for a country. On a worldwide basis, most clinics have their own bingo rate, ongoing pregnancy rate, miscarriage rate, multiple pregnancy rate, and live birth rate. As the field of reproductive medicine is getting more and more regulated, there are societies or regulatory authorities that require the reporting of such rates at a regional level or even national level.
So, you can imagine that in calculating these rates, the heterogeneity of the group we talk about is in fact very important. And when I said 40% bingo rate, it is obviously a very general figure which includes women of all age and all infertility background. Most centres can achieve this rate, sometimes a little higher or a little lower.
2. Although miscarriage rate is a little scary, this rate is similar in those who conceive naturally. Most miscarriages occur in the first trimester (<12 weeks of gestation), and in ivf, because we ultrasound-scan very early as compared to natural pregnancy, we are able to detect all "losses".
To be prepared for the down side is a correct attitude. Some jm's do not know at all of the "negatives" and are often caught in despair when they fail one or 2 ETs. It is a cruel fact that only a small portion of women will bingo per ET attempt, that's just how nature designs it. However, given a reasonable number of tries, the success rate becomes higher. (Down side again: success rate still cannot reach 100% for all)
I am not aware of any adverse side-effects from using artificial cycle. However, this is a very medical question which should be addressed by your ivf doctor because he/she has the most medical knowledge on you in terms of drug response and suitability for different treatment regimes.
Doing FET consecutively is alright, although each FET may not fall onto the same day of the month.
May I know when can gestational sac be found on U/S. I will be going to see doctor tomorrow. I wonder if gestational sac can be found as early as 2 weeks post ovulation.
5 months down the round, I found myself . Yesterday, I use clearblue digital to check. it says "1-2 weeks". Today, it says '"2-3 weeks'. It is amazing correct. My conception was on 10th Jun (Friday), today I am really stepping into 2-3 weeks.
This time, I am more relaxed physically. My organs are more relaxed this time. I want to share with other JMs what I observed here. But I refrain from doing so because I don't want to give wrong information.
I know why my 1st cycle failed. I didn't insert the vaginal tab properly. I also stop using it a few days later thinking those who conceive naturally don't need to use vaginal tabs. At that time, I didn't know baby-kingdom and you. I later on asked you why vaginal tab is important. You said in a fresh cycle all our follicles are used up, hence progestrone support is need.
A special thanks to you, and other JMs for your mental support / information here. It was a lonely journey, but after I joined this forum, I am no longer lonely and found courage to continue. Thanks God for letting me to go on. I've kept praying "God, I wanted to have a child/children so much. But you know the best for me. May Thy will, not Mine be done." This helps me to relax... a bit.
)
. Yesterday, I use clearblue digital to check. it says "1-2 weeks". Today, it says '"2-3 weeks'. It is amazing correct. My conception was on 10th Jun (Friday), today I am really stepping into 2-3 weeks. 
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