A few nurses I talked to before all told me that women who got bingo from ivf quite often have brownish spotting; not sure why, maybe they are more stressed than those who naturally bingo. So, I think you should stop worrying and let it be the way it is, take more rest and see how things turn out on the 6th week+. I believe you will go to your ivf doctor soon to have another ultrasound?
I can't really think of why or what the "7-8 years ago" refer to. In any case, you probably won't need another ivf (keep our fingers crossed!); if one day you choose to do ivf again, wait till then to ask about the black spots. Another issue is the grading. Grading is not everything, it is just the easiest way for us to have a reference point from where we hope to predict an embryo outcome; another way of looking at embryo grades is that when an embryo has a poor grade, it has limited potential. When an embryo has a good grade, however, it could behave as good as it looks, or it could still be not compatible with life. If embryo grading were able to tell an embryo's fate 100%, this thread won't even need to exist.
Relax for now and older generations used to say that pregnant women should look at and think of good things. So, let's leave behind the ugly black spots or any negative thinking. Best wishes,
cutecutetown
IVF does not help to reduce miscarriage; IVF simply lets you have a few embryos at a time, hoping to save time with producing multiple eggs which in turn giving multiple embryos. You did not change the genetics of the eggs by doing ivf, and it is not surprising that you will still bingo ok.
For all your previous miscarriages (from natural conception or ivf), did you get the genetics of the aborted fetus checked? I tend to think it wasn't done, so we really don't know whether it is the embryo or some other factor(s) leading to your recurrent miscarriages.
In trying to answer your questions:
1. Doing IVF will give you more than one embryo to put back into the womb, or a few more to be stored for later use, but IVF alone can't prevent miscarriages. It is still by lucky chance that hopefully you get to transfer an embryo that can carry through to live birth.
2. I am not sure if it is your egg quality, or some other factors. There is no magic remedy, but you may try to take multi-vitamins and stay on a healthy lifestyle (see a few postings before this one, which I mentioned lifestyle to another jm). How old are you?
3. If the size of your chocolate cyst is not large, I will follow your doctor's advice.
4. When both you and your hubby have done those tests, you should not look for more tests. I can't recommend specific tests if your doctor has not recommended further for you.
Do you remember what embryos you transferred in your last ivf cycle?
cutecutetown
Wow, time flies, and you have done a lot within the time.
For your age without doing any embryo transfer before, I tend to be more conservative and go for one embryo only. You have plenty of embryos frozen and there is no rush to use them up. You have all the right to use one embryo this time; if if you don't bingo, use up to two next time. Don't be too aggressive especially you understand the risk associated with twins.
In the lab, when we thaw one embryo and it ends up not looking good, we will thaw another one (as long as there are more embryos available for thawing). In your case, even if the first embryo doesn't look good, I am sure the lab will thaw you a second one; no need to wait for another cycle.
Good luck, cutecutetown :)
點評
糟糟豬
thanks for your advice! will get u updated for my progress :)
發表於 11-9-23 09:15
Cutecutetown,
Thanks for your advice. In fact, I'm afraid even if I try another round of ivf, I'll fail again. Besides, I'm also thinking about switching to another doctor. The reason is that I have no confidence in my existing doctor. For the ivf that I just did, the doctor gave me 5-day針藥 before my blood test (FSH, LH, etc) results were available. After knowing that my FSH is 11 (one day after), she gave me a call and said she was surprised that my FSH was higher than women of the same age (I'm 37 now). She said she would have given me 更重分量針藥 if she knew that my FSH was 11. When I saw her again after the 5-day injection, there were only 4 eggs. She then gave me another 3-day 針藥 and said she had 加藥 for me. But she also admitted that it might be too late to 加藥 at this stage. After the 3-day injection, still there were only 4 eggs (3 larger and 1 very small). Worse still, on the day I check bingo in her clinic, after confirming that I've failed in this ivf, she, without trying to analyse to me why I've failed in this ivf, asked me to start another ivf right away. At that time, I'm depressed and want to cry. She, without pacifying me, just said my FSH was high and should do another ivf as soon as possible if I wanted to have a baby. I feel regret to have chosen her to do the ivf for me.
As you are in the trade, would you recommend a good doctor to me? You may pm me if you don't want to recommend openly. Thanks a lot!
Babehope
I feel for you, and you have all the right to switch to another doctor. Given your first ivf record, your 2nd ivf should almost be better in terms of management; but still, success cannot be guaranteed :(
For everyone's 1st-time ivf, doctors often have to base on general experience learned from other women of similar age and similar medical background. Indeed, if only we knew of your D3FSH earlier, you might have been started on a higher dose; but the outcome might still be the same. There is certainly room for improvement, and now in retrospect, we can surely say we could have done this and we could have done that. However, in everybody's first time, the doctor always tries her best to give you the best chance; it is sad that the "surprise" factor caught her and also caused you quite a price.
Because I am in the trade, I can't recommend any doctor. I would suggest you to seek some of the jm's here; and then, most importantly, you need to make an appointment with that doctor to see if you feel comfortable with her. Your first instinct is usually correct in choosing your ivf doctor; recommendation from others only come second.
cutecutetown..
it's the first time i write to you.. and hope you can ease my uncertainty..
我今日剛做了ET.. 有10粒egg mature.. but just 2 eggs is fertilized.. doctor told me that my egg's quality is poor that's why the fertilization rate is so low...
i am 35 now.. and my FSH in day 3 is 6.3, LH 2.8, today my Endometrium is 15. Today they put 1 x 6 cell grade 2 , 1 x Zygote (MI egg).
我聽到個肧胎專家好rush 咁同我老公講.. 其他冇fertilized 的eggs.. 有d 唔圓(shape is weird.. i guess) .. 雖然有2個好圓.. 但中間有洞? 所以唔用得...
醫生安慰我地話d egg 可能係一批批quality.. 有機會隔幾個月另外一批egg質素會好些... 有可能嗎??
請問你知道有咩方法可改善egg quality? this cycle .. 咁岩我打排egg 針時.. 有食皮膚藥 (風懶).. will it be the bad factor to 下降 egg quality?
另外.. 我想問下.. 我今次放呢2個肧胎.. 一個得6cell.. 正常嗎? 應該是要8cell for day 3? but i saw report mention Stage of ET is Day 2.. that means is Day 2 embryo..or ? i feel confused.. (我19號抽egg, 21號ET)
For 2nd embryo,the doctor said it's just 受精 and no cell is developed yet coz it just 養大 the egg at lab.. and fertilized it on this morning (or yesterday morning, can't hear very clearly)..so.. will it still be possible to 分烈 inside my body?? will the chance be less than 6 cell or 8 cell embryo?In the picture they provided to me.. i just can see this embryo's shape is nearly a round shape with 3 tiny black spot inside! No 分烈 at all.. will the black spot is the sperm? heee.. sorry for any stupid thoughts..
actually i know.. it can't change anythings right now... but i just wanna to know little bit more so as to ease my worry..
anyway.. 我會輕鬆面對!!
唔該哂你冇私的幫助!
Hi Cutecutetown,
Sorry for bothering you again. 在1st ivf fails 後,發覺今次經血量特別多,今天是經期第五天,但還在流頗多鮮紅色的血,也有一些細小的血塊,連帶一些透明的分泌,這是正常現象嗎?平日我的經期通常都是5天便完的。希望你能解答,非常感謝.
點評
cutecutetown
normal cyclicity, including period duration & blood volume, should return after 1 or 2 periods
發表於 11-9-21 23:05
cutecutetown
This is a period immediately after all the ivf high-dose hormones; so, bleeding may be more severe.
發表於 11-9-21 23:02
Let's tackle your question one by one. Although knowing how those eggs developed is important, there are a few missing information.
a) are you sure you had 10 mature eggs, or just 10 eggs in total?
b) was fertilisation done by ICSI, or IVF?
If this is only your 1st-time ivf, then it is possible that 隔幾個月另外一批egg質素會好些. One reason is that you are 35 (not that old) and have reasonable ovarian reserve; another reason is that we often learn from the 1st attempt and will fine-tune your 2nd attempt.
I don't know if skin allergy medicine affects egg quality, my guess is it probably would not. Having 風懶 may be a sign showing that your body is not at its best/strongest condition; however, it is difficult to narrow everything down to just one simple factor.
Your embryo transfer was a day-2 [19th = day0, 20th = day1, 21st = day2]. Generally, day2 should be 4-cell. 6-cell is just a tiny bit faster and I also see some 6-cell embryos if I check later during the day (e.g. 2pm instead of 10am). Knowing the above, I believe ICSI was done on the 20th for one of your immature eggs, which showed fertilization on the 21st and that's why it became your 2nd embryo. If it is a good embryo, it will continue to divide inside your body.
There are time-lines for embryo development as well:
day 1 > fertilized only; may divide to 2-cell much later in the day.
[I think the 3 tiny black spots you refer to were something else; you can't see the sperm anymore at this stage :) ]
day 2 > 4-cell; but can range from 2-cell to 6-cell.
day 3 > 8-cell; again, can range from 6-cell to 10-12-cell.
day 5 > blastocyst.
day 5 - day 8 > implantation. (I think you and many jm's will ask about this time frame.)
thanks cutecutetown your quick response..
let me answer your question..
a) i got 13 egg extracted.. today doctor told me that finally 10 eggs is matured.. but... only 2 is fertilized.. both is ICSI.. i believed.. doctor and 肧胎專家 said other 8 eggs quality is not good, i don't know they have tried ICSI on that too or just as their shape is too bad, so just ignore them..
b) yes. i think it's done by ICSI.. as my husband 's sperm is not very strong too..
if that is the case my eggs' quality is not very good.. can i do something to improve it? since doctor said the blood index can't show your egg quality, just the egg reservation situation.
my 肧胎專家 said my 6 cell embryo have some 碎片 too.. willl it be so bad? one more question.. i just check my 2nd embryo (未分裂那個肧胎)... is not completely 圓形.. 似少少楕圓形.. will it affect it to 分烈?
For your 3 times of ivf, do you know if most of the eggs were from your left ovary, or egg number was quite similar from both of your ovaries? If quite similar, then the surgery from 10 yrs ago probably didn't affect; and it is usually the previous 朱古力瘤 that affects egg quality, not the surgery.
塞藥 only helps to stop 月經from returning too soon; when no embryo has implanted, your period will come sooner or later. In some women on 塞藥 and no bingo, their periods return earlier than expected. We normally ask a woman to wait ~14 days after embryo transfer before checking bingo because while some will have earlier period like you, some will have "later" period even there is no embryo implanted.
If the outcome is no bingo, would you have preferred to know earlier or later? I am sorry you have been through this long journey of ivf; how was the quality of those embryos that were transferred?
cutecutetown
a) I believe they tried to fertilise those 8 other eggs as well.
Yes, blood index gives no clue to egg quality; although we know age and no. of years of infertility negatively correlate with egg quality.
It is a common finding that human embryos have 碎片. The embryo is often ok if 碎片is not severe. Embryo shape does not affect an embryo's ability to divide.
I did FET in June 2011 but failed. At that time, they defrost two eggs but I want to put one egg only. Therefore, they freeze the remaining one again.
I plan to do FET again in this month. Today is day 3 and I have just see my Dr. She said the quality of
re-freeze egg will be not so good since it has freeze and defrost two times.
Do you know that is it only affect the success rate of pregancy? Will it affect the growth of the embryo in future such as the growth of different organs. 我驚會變K 胎 or any 先天性疾病 or 智障?
Have you come across this kind of case before and is it success?
Moreover, she said this time will change the method of doing FET. She have give me the Estrofem medicine for thickening my 內膜. She have not give any 排卵藥 to me this time.
Do you know this method? What will be the following procedure?
Thanks for your help.
Please also refer to my last reply, which is attached below for easy reference.
I have come across scientific literature that looks into these refreezing embryos and there seems to be no harmful effects such as those you mentioned. I have re-frozen some embryos, but they haven't been used yet. While the data amount is not large enough to make any conclusion, there is so far no detrimental effect of refreezing and rethawing reported in the literature. So, it is up to you to decide.
As for estrofem, you will probably have it started on day 1-3; after ~14days, your doctor will check some hormones and your endometrial thickness. If things look good, she will add progesterone for you. This is also a simple and effective method for FET, no worry.
Do you want to place one or two embryos back this time? If you only want one embryo for transfer, use this refreeze embryo. There is always a small risk (very small) associated with freezing and thawing, whether an embryo is going through it one time or many times. My comments based on only my experience is that a good embryo will survive even a few times of freeze and thaw. If it is a bad embryo, it will not survive the "defrost" and you save the 2 weeks of anxiety waiting for a negative pregnancy test.
On the other hand, if you want to place 2 embryos back, then use the other tube with 2 embryos.
Based on "放胎果兩粒16分屬於GRADE 1,其餘有兩粒得9 同6 ....", I think呢啲數字代表 embryo quality; looks like the higher the number, the better the grade.
1. ICSI may or may not give you more fertilized eggs, but at the end we still rely on egg quality to give good-quality embryos.
2. 卵巢功能only indicates ovarian reserve, i.e. egg availability from the ovaries. It does not indicate egg quality. Better medication for stimulation may sometimes help a little, but there is no magic potion to reverse the biological clock.
3. The comments was too general. Based on statistics from all women, and also restricting to a total of 3 ivf attempts for example, "cumulative success rate" should be higher as compared to 1 single ivf attempt. However, the more the attempts, the success rate will plateau and it will never reach 100%. In among those who failed & re-try and failed & re-try, overall success chance will actually decrease.
4. If you decide to go for your 4th attempt, you can do it as soon as your next period comes. The extra "rest" time is more for your psychological rather than physical recovery.
5. Generally, side-effects (if present) are short-term.
6. Did your clinic/hospital tell you a date when you should return to the clinic to check bingo?
really thanks for your reply.. cutecutetown..
我真係傻.. 我仲以為一用icsi.. D egg 一定會受精, 因為不是已打了條sperm 直接入去egg 裏面咩?
咁受精唔到的原因, 是否就是取決於egg quality ? as i think the 肧胎專家已經會挑選一些好的精子先打入去? 所以應該唔關精子事, am i right?
more.. 咁受到精的蛋, 是否都一定會分裂? 定係可以分裂下就定左架? --> which means cant be used?
sorry.. sometimes.. i really feel confused...
Haha.. i sudden found some embryo photo at one of website from a chicago IVF centre, quite informative and many embryo cells photo reference.. .. 係個度我先睇到... 原來靚既肧胎d cell 係咁清架... 哈哈. 我終於見到啦... hope i have chance to see mine in this good quality in the future!!
the website mentioned a zygote (in my case, should be my 2nd embryo la), will show the presense of 2 pronuclei in the centre for fertilised egg which consist both parents' DNA. if some have 3 pronuclei, that means have extra 23 chromosomes which will make a abnormal baby.. so.. 係唔係每個肧胎專家放得的肧胎都應該只係 2 pronuclei, which means the potential baby will have normal 染色體? becoz i sometimes heard some 孕婦 need to stop pregnancy coz they check their babies have abnormal 染色體... so.. in this case, it will not be happened in IVF babies, am i right?
when i watched those website.. i think 遺傳學 is really quite interesting ar! Having a baby is really amazing and a gift by God!!
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因為lab份報告出嚟, 雖然每次都抽到10粒左右, 但最後個comment 係話我啲卵子質素poor......
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