Thanks cutecutetown - As some blogs mentioned that the fertilization rate will directly affect the success rate of 著床, so really feel upset and difficult to accept this low rate.
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cutecutetown
This is also why I set up a forum here to "de-code" any misleading myths propagated on blogs.
發表於 12-4-18 17:01
cutecutetown
Your rate is not low, as stated in my previous reply.
發表於 12-4-18 17:00
I have to say your posts are really helpful and encouraging, thank you so much.
I just failed my 2nd IVF last week. Although sad, I won't give up and will try again soon.
I'm turning 41 soon, and had my 1st IVF last Sep. Before that, I've 3 natural IUI in May to July but all failed. My FSH in Sep was 6.97, had 300iu per day for the first 3 days. Then, doc said my follicles' response didn't match with the FSH figure. So, I had another 7 shots of 450iu before retrieving the eggs. Finally, 15 eggs collected, 9 MII, 4 fertilized with ICSI, transferred 3 embryos (4C G2, 5C G2-, 3C G3). Sperm morphology at 4%.
11 days after the transfer, my HCG was 28, had severe bleeding for 3 days, HCG level continued to rise up to 5xx one week later. On 5w3d can see the 胎囊, but it slipped few days later.
I had my 2nd attempt last month, had 10 shots of 450iu, had 9 eggs collected, 7MII, 4 fertilized, 3 embryos transferred (4C G2, 4C G2-, 3C G3), sperm morphology is 6%.
I've the following questions:
1) is it true that I'll have similar results on number of eggs collected, fertilized and similar stage n grade of embryos for my future attempts? Really nothing I can do? My doc said my egg quality is not good due to age, so need to try all over again and again, hope to get one good quality egg to be fertilized and get pregnant.
2) my doc never mentioned the thickness of my 子宮內膜 before the transfer in both attempts. But I know that many other jms here mentioned it a lot. Is it an important factor? Why my said had never account on this? Does it really matter?
3) I didn't test my FSH level on the 2nd attempt as my doc said she had ultrasound and know the condition on the follicles. Is it necessary to have this test every time?
3) I start to think whether I should change doctor but not sure if the doc and lab would have big difference as the main reason for the failure is on my side, ie my age and poor egg quality. My doc is really nice and I feel comfortable with it.
I know I have to stay relax and keep healthy lifestyle in order to face the next attempt, but it's easy to say but hard to do. I'm trying a new Chinese doc with acupuncture, will finish the remaining half bottle of DHEA (though doc said may not help for my case), taking Q10, vitamin E, folic acid too.
Dear coolwinnie,
Usually doctors will prescribe antibiotics to the woman, mainly to prevent the very very small chance of infection, if any, after the egg collection. Although the egg collection procedure is clean and sterile, the fine retrieval needle still needs to puncture your ovaries and cervix, creating wounds.
As for the man who provides sperm specimen, especially in IVF (not ICSI) when sperm and eggs are simply placed together in a dish, bacterial contamination from sperm may infect the eggs and therefore making everything useless. Not many doctors prescribe antibiotics to men these days because most of the culture media (the "food" for gametes and embryos in the lab) contain antibiotics already.
Will you be under general anesthesia for egg retrieval? It will be a breeze and you won't even notice the procedure is done so quickly. Take it easy!
cutecutetown
Hi Cutecutetown - I spoke to the doctor during lunch time and he said there's no need for me to boost the eggs while it's my period days these few days. There might be ovulation tablets for me to take so I am going back on Friday to see him. He said doing FET the ovulation timing have to be in extreme accuracy any fail of the tracking of ovulation will impact the successful rate of FET. I did asked him the quality of the frozen ones, he said average same as last time. Hence, I'd better not to put anymore hope on it as all those failed cycles does impact my whole person's confidence etc........
Is it true that after the embryos are being defrost there might be a chance of it not survive?
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cutecutetown
Yes, the chance of a good embryo not surviving the freeze/thaw process exists, but not high.
發表於 12-4-18 22:58
cutecutetown
Agree and disagree, you may not want to put hope on it, but stay positive & optimistic!
發表於 12-4-18 22:55
Age is indeed the biggest issue, although we try to overcome it with ivf. Looking at your brief history (such as FSH ok, gave reasonable # of eggs, even bingo once), you may try a few more times of ivf if you are desperate and can afford the treatment. I would be glad if you eventually take home your own baby; however, there may still be chances of failure. Some women consider donor eggs, but donors are often difficult to find. No commercial dealings can be done in HK.
To answer your questions:
1. Likely to have similar results, but keep in mind that the number of eggs may decline as age increases.
2. Endometrium is important because that's where the embryo(s) implant. I am sure your doctor has taken it into account. A simple ultrasound would have already provided enough information about your endometrium, and doctors usually won't alarm you when it is normal; so, you can relax.
3. Not every time, especially your 2 cycles were within ~6 months.
4. No need to change just yet, as you feel comfortable with your doc.
Your positive attitude is very good. Acupuncture won't hurt, and all the supplements you mentioned may not help, but just like acupuncture, they do you no harm. Just do not over-do to avoid being burdened on time management.
I started my ivf last year and i had a chemical pregnency in my 3rd attempt. That three times were done in consecutive months. After the miscarriage, i had seen a herbalist doctor and did a few times acupuncture.
And i had my 4th attempt and 5th attempt in March and april. However, the qualityof those follicles were very poor. Dr showed me the pic of those follicles, those are very dark in colour if compare with those before my miscarriage. and only one embryo is formed in both time. Finally, the 4th failed and dr advised me to freeze the embroyo for the 5th attempt. Very frustrated.
I dont understand the reason of deteriorating in quality of follicles only after a few months. Is it becuase of the dterioration of the ovary functions or due to other reasons? Any possibilty to generate better quality of follicle in next cycle?
A few more silly questions, did the 3rd attempt classified as a sucessful case of ivf though the embroyo finally could not grow up. Is there any limit in doing ivf, should i continue? Should i change doctor?
hi cutecutetown thanks for your advice. i will take the FET another practice, though staying positive but will not be like my 1st IVF putting excessive hope as the negative result hurts more when you put hope. i have been hearing cases when you are very despair normally that's the time when the baby comes. i will just have to let go on my aggressive heart about having a dragon baby and leave it naturally on almighty's hand. i am wishing that the thaw embryos are all in good conditions. thanks again!
Hello whiskerchiu,
I hate to suggest it, but it looks like the herbal medicine do you no good. Stop it if you are still taking it and rest 1 or 2 months before starting another cycle.
Would you mind telling how old you are and how many eggs were collected in your 5 ivf cycles? There is not much we can do to improve egg quality; most supplements or use of medication may only at best improve the quantity/number by a little. So, from my standpoint, I rather have my patients not doing anything, or do something recommended by the ivf doctor. The worst situation is when you do something without letting your ivf doctor know.
Your 3rd attempt was successful, except the embryo stopped growing at a very early stage. Theoretically, there is not a fixed number of cycles (of ivf) a woman should do. Very generally speaking and based on statistics, a fair chance exists up to 5 or 6 cycles; if after 6 cycles without a success, chance further declines. This has not yet taken into account the age of the woman, her ovarian reserve, and financial affordability.
You may give yourself 1 or 2 more cycles as you somewhat bingo not too long ago. With the same doctor perhaps, because you still have your embryo from the 5th attempt. Usually, if you feel good with your current doctor, you can stay with him/her. Unless you are very unease, you may consider a change of hands in the hope for a change in luck.
Hi Cutecutetown....do you mean the more IVF you tried and fail the less likely to be succeed? I do know people have to go through at least 2-3 times if they are marginal 40 or up in their age. There is no supplement for sure to have better quality of the cells? I also asked my doctor the failure reason for IVF but he said he cannot be too sure as it could be the cell quality itself as it cannot be seen by eyes, is this right? Thanks.
Dear kakakaju,
I hope you get the meaning correct. In essence, if you have already tried 5-6 times without a bingo, your success chance on your further attempt(s) will be much lower than when you were on your first few attempts.
I would say each "time" = each "ivf cycle". In other words, if one ivf cycle gives you enough embryos for both fresh and frozen transfer, it is still counted as "one".
Indeed, it is very common for a woman, regardless of her age, not succeeding on their 1st ivf embryo transfer. After that, on her 2nd or 3rd embryo transfer event (the embryos of which may be derived from her 1st ivf cycle or from a new ivf cycle), she may succeed. However, age does matter; the younger you are, the easier the bingo.
If there were one or a combination of magic supplements that could improve egg and embryo quality, then no one would have trouble having babies. Embryo morphology alone does not tell the entire story of "quality"; just like when you choose an orange from a carton of oranges, you still try to pick a good-looking one, hoping it will be sweet inside. A good-looking orange is usually sweet, but I have definitely had these oranges before that were not sweet, or even sour a few times. An average-looking orange, on the other hand, may sometimes surprise you when you don't expect much but it turns out to be very sweet. However, a rotten orange is certainly not sweet.
What constitutes the remainder of this "quality" story? Genetics, environmental, and other factors; but we can never be sure how much each contributes.
cutecutetown
Thanks cutecutetown. thats very helpful.
Here are the results of my ivf. 1st:5eggs with only one fertized; 2nd:7eggs with 5 fertized and implanted 3; 3rd:6eggs all fertized and implanted 5; 4th: 5 eggs with one fertized but poor quality, implanted one fresh and 2 frozen; 5th:5eggs with 1 fertized, dont know the quality. in my 5th ivf, there were 7 eggs when they were about 10mm but finally some were not growing.
i am approaching 37, but dr said my ovary does not react well to those medcines, so the dr has used heavy prescriptio since in the early begining, i.e. injecting 600iu medicine! eggs were only matured to extract until about day 17. is it very long?
i took herbal medicine until Feb but stop in march when i started the 4th time. however, had done acupuncture after implanting embroyos. do u also suggest not to do acupuncture to stimulate the blood circulation after implantation?
Fertilization didn't look that good; I suppose ICSI was done in all 5 attempts. Was it because the eggs were immature (not big enough)? What was your hubby's sperm like (concentration, motility)? I am not overly concerned about morphology, unless conc. & motility were both poor.
Yes, your daily medicine dosage was huge; are you sure it's 600iu not 450iu? Although 600iu is still ok, I haven't heard of it for a long time. The stimulation was longer than usual, but if your dr said your ovaries don't respond very well, then you likely need that many days for the eggs to mature.
You may continue your acupuncture if you want, it should not cause you harm.
cutecutetown
dear cutecutetown, thanks again!yes, some eggs were immature when extracted.
i injected the whole syringe of medical, i.e. 600iu i believe. thats very sad, my hubby's sperm is not good as well...anyway everything is deteriorating when getting older but just mine have gone too fast...nothing else i can do. extremely frustrated.
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