agape 發表於 12-4-28 23:12 
你暫時也讀不出肯定性的結了婚和未結婚的界定。那麼我希望你能多看聖經,了解什麼是婚姻.
若你沒這個界定, ...
I mean no disrespect for pastors and teachers of God's word because I have been one for many years. But many are not teaching what the bible says. You often make some wild claims about the bible and then point to a pastor somewhere or some article somewhere. If their words are not from the bible, then why do we need it? And if they are from the bible, then why do we need it? All we need is the bible. Are you saying a pastor's words are as important as what God says in the bible? If the pastor does not speak according to the bible, then what good is it? If we have a bible to read, and we can read, why do we need a pastor? Do you think a pastor is needed to explain what the bible says? Don't you think the Holy Spirit can do a better job? And each believer is promised the Holy Spirit to guide them. I don't care to mention my credentials because they are unimportant, just as Paul said his background was unimportant when it came to knowing Christ. The bible is all we need.
I don't mind your ideas if we can all learn something from the bible as a result of researching from it. But your comments often sound like some 'formulated answer I've heard before from some pastor somewhere. I call them 'canned sermons'. They might seem to contain some food from the bible but they don't taste anything at all like the real food in the bible. And they are not very nutritious either. These teachers who teach such things should just concentrate on learning from the bible without relying upon some man's explanation and so should you Agape. This last post by you is an example I think.
Now, in regards to your post about Jesus' defining marriage as a ceremony. I think your mentioning Jesus going to a wedding feast as proof that Jesus defined marriage as a ceremony is like comparing marriage with the price of tea in China! What is the connection? A marriage? Is that it? If there were a connection between marriage and some sort of ceremony, then you must give people an idea of what the ceremony is all about. So how do you define a ceremony by the way? By your customs? Wedding ceremonies are nothing more than customs. They are not required by modern law nor the law of God. Find me a bible passage that shows God commanded us to have a marriage ceremony and I will shut up.
I know for a fact that their ceremonies and ours today are very different. Besides, this occasion where Jesus turned water into wine is just a wedding feast. Nothing is mentioned about it having a ceremony, rituals, an official overseeing it, etc. Why do you assume they had a ceremony? In fact, in Palestine at this time for the Jews the marriage was negotiated between two parties and if agreed upon they would become engaged before these witnesses. Then, legally, they were required to get married or there would be shame on the offending family. There would be documentation at the time of engagement and one party would literally have to start 'separation' proceedings to stop the process and prevent a marriage but there was little or no ceremony. (By the way, this is the historical explanation for Jesus' father, Joseph, considering putting away Mary when he first found out she was pregnant before he learned it was from the Holy Spirit. He was going to 'put her away' privately so as to not hurt her reputation. They were engaged, but he would need to 'put her away'. It was similar to divorcing today. ) After this engagement documentation was finished there was usually a waiting period and then they might or might not have a feast, depending on the financial situation of the bridegroom. If they were poor, they might simply have the daughter leave the parent's house and move in with the bridegroom with the families wishing them well as they went in. That was it. This event you mentioned was just the feast.
So, this couple in Cana were probably already done with the 'ceremonies' and officiated rituals if there were any. Jesus is only mentioned as a witness at their feast. So, all we can get from this example is that Jesus supported wedding feasts. And drinking wine. Besides, if He did support the marriage feast does that necessarily mean He did not support a marriage without a ceremony? Yet, you assume that is meant. No pianos are mentioned in the bible; does that mean it is wrong to feature a piano when singing hymns to God?If Jesus turned water into wine does that mean we can get drunk with wine? Of course not. We must keep the message within the context.
Now, let me try to define marriage with the fresh meat of the bible as our answer according to its context, not just grasping for answers from a canned idea that a pastor taught us. Here is what the bible says about what consitutes a marriage in God's eyes.
Matthew 19:4-6
4 And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5 and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.
Here Jesus quotes from the scriptures. He was referring to divorce, so obviously it concerns marriage also. Marriage is not defined in the bible by any form of ceremony. Nothing is mentioned in the Law of Moses concerning ceremonies for marriage, but it does command concerning the relationship between the man and woman who marry. The description above by Jesus supports the idea that the marriage is defined by the 'joining together' of the sexual union but that there is more to it than just that. This also is verified by the history of the customs of the ancient Hebrews and other people around them. They all viewed marriage as taking place when a man and a woman above a certain age agreed to join their lives together and then engaged in sexual intercourse. If they did not perform the last act, then they were not considered married. At that point, the parents could still stop the marriage of their son or daughter if it was against their will. That was why Laban had to deceive Jacob and have him sleep with Leah, otherwise Jacob would not have been bound to take Leah as his wife. Like I said, there is more to a marriage than just the sexual union. It must also be a relationship which is approved by God. Two men cannot form a marriage in God's eyes. Neither can two women or a woman with an animal or a man with a woman and her mother. (Yes, there is a law on this in the Law of Moses.) So, a man cannot marry a woman who has been divorced by another man.
Your belief about marriage is fine, Agape, if kept to yourself. When you start to accuse others of lacking in bible knowledge, then you are going too far and deserving of a rebuke. You do know what a rebuke is, don't you Agape? It is what I am giving you right now! You don't know enough about the bible to be teaching it and telling others what they don't know. You take too many passages out of their context like the one with Jesus at a wedding banquet. Rely upon God to teach you instead of man and learn from this experience. And if anyone does not want to listen to this teaching, keep in mind that I did not command it, but God did through His word, the bible.
KNT
Love is when the other person’s happiness is more important than your own ~ H. Jackson Brown
, 如果吾係主耶穌有無限寬容憐憫慈愛, 耐心等候我回轉, 我今日都吾知會係點. 即使我曾經刻意犯罪傷主的心, 祂都冇責備我, 反而以溫柔體恤的心接納我, 正如聖經中浪子比喻裡頭的父親, 見到忤逆仔使晒d錢先識返屋企都冇鬧半句, 相反仲要開心到設宴慶祝添. 知道人嘅有限, 明白神嘅無限, 吾再將愛主嘅心限制係人嘅身上.
我不能回答你："你可以/不可以",或者"你是/不是"。 但我覺得回答你此問並不重要，最重要是： 我相信神的話語透過聖靈自會引領你。我信我們都會就神的話語而因心意更新而變化。
，原來不只我自己這麼覺得。可能我都有錯覺。 我想某君只是執我的字眼，非我本人。 若不，某君，请亲言。某君也為此平反了我的_______。I like to give people a benefit of doubt. 
你對我的認識還不夠呢。真系0甘冤黎人既說話都講得出口0既
mouth:。若你 是有這樣理解我的话，都先要問 我這個發言人是否有這麼個意思才再继续討論啦。
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